tell me why i’m wrong (1 Viewer)

[IFF]

scientific evidence for people being transgender - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7689007.stm and http://faculty.bennington.edu/~sherman/sex/TRANSGENDER.pdf (8 page pdf document)

gender is unfortunately not a clear divide between male and female, theres a good number of gender identities between masculine and feminine such as androgene, agender, neutrosis, trans, demi, intergender etc etc etc. unfortunately as a society, we have been reluctant to think outside of the binary gender of masculine and feminine.

those who do not understand what it is to be transgender, just be happy you don't have to deal with the transphobia, failure of people to accept the true you etc etc.

 

[IFF]

just was back checking to see what i could get about legal status:



the article is easy googled. basically, it looks like we have arcane laws for transgender people too.

legislation on this was published in july on recognising the true gender though there are 3 flaws to it:
- person has to be divorced from their spouse to be able to benefit from it which is anti-family.
- can only be applied for by over 18's
- the doctors confirmation

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-...p-forward-but-still-needs-more-work-1.1486398

i think the irish times has estimate for a year for the bill to pass.

 

[ann post]

legislation on this was published in july on recognising the true gender though there are 3 flaws to it:
- person has to be divorced from their spouse to be able to benefit from it which is anti-family.
- can only be applied for by over 18's
- the doctors confirmation

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-...p-forward-but-still-needs-more-work-1.1486398

i think the irish times has estimate for a year for the bill to pass.

legislation on this was published in july on recognising the true gender though there are 3 flaws to it:
- person has to be divorced from their spouse to be able to benefit from it which is anti-family.
- can only be applied for by over 18's
- the doctors confirmation

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-...p-forward-but-still-needs-more-work-1.1486398

i think the irish times has estimate for a year for the bill to pass.

cool. thanks. Was thinking on doing a bit on this for work.

 

[IFF]

there is also some debate about whether trans should be included as part of lgbt. an article on gcn.ie sparked controversy on this in april

http://www.gcn.ie/LGBT_Soup

By including an identity not specifically referring to same-sex attraction (T), the flood gates were opened. Now, before you run off to compose a face-meltingly indignant email to the editor about the unseemly transphobia of GCN, consider the fact that gay and trans are not synonyms. ‘Gay’ refers to same-sex attraction only, ‘transgender’ to the state of one’s gender identity.

the same writer doesn't feel asexuals should be included under the lgbt umbrella in the article

Seriously now. Asexual? Asexuality is the absence of sexual attraction to anyone – same-sex, opposite-sex, whatever. When exactly did LGBT become the dumping ground for every non-heterosexual orientation?

 

[ann post]

The article seems sorta designed to start a flame war i fairness.

 

[taubstumm]

The article seems sorta designed to start a flame war i fairness.

that article is a mess, but the comments are like a nuclear bomb going off in outrageville

 

[ann post]

that article is a mess, but the comments are like a nuclear bomb going off in outrageville

i just thought it was designed to start flame wars and skipped the comments.

 

[Unicron]

p.s. there's all sorts of messy biological things out there as it is right? Like, male/female aren't perfect biological distinctions and the definitive separation is very much rooted in culture.

I forget the term but in some Polynesian cultures they consider a third sex to be a thing. One of this third gender recently became the first trans* person to play international football but this person doesn't identify as trans.

* trans in the Western context I guess

 

[Unicron]

Secondly when it comes to issues of identity, why stop at gender ? If I get arrested I will claim to be a bear. That's right liberals I am a bear. Now you can imprison me wherever you want but I have the right to sleep 6 months of the year and if I eat one of the other inmates, it's your fault for putting a bear in prison with humans in the first place.

I believe that people who do this are referred to as "otherkin." The identify as animals or in some cases fictional creatures like fairies.

 

[therealjohnny]

Interesting
http://www.boredpanda.com/burnesha-albanian-women-who-live-as-men-jill-peters/

 

[CinnamonBoy]

I forget the term but in some Polynesian cultures they consider a third sex to be a thing. One of this third gender recently became the first trans* person to play international football but this person doesn't identify as trans.

* trans in the Western context I guess

The first open one anyway. The head on Neymar, I'd say he got there before.....it(?).

 

[taubstumm]

still reading more about this stuff, all y’all.

http://boingboing.net/2013/08/26/mannings-self-made-gender-h.html

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/25/chelsea-manning-military-transgender-revolution

 

[Lili Marlene]

How do you feel about it now @taubstumm?

I'm still finding it hard to process that s/he doesn't ultimately want to undergo a full sex-change but I guess time will tell with that kind of thing.

 

[Anthony]

Anyone listen to the Savage Lovecast? There was a similar question there the other week. It was about what pronoun to use when discussing someone's "previous" sex. Even Dan Savage was stumped and put the call out for opinions from the very people being discussed.

 

[ann post]

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[IFF]

Anyone listen to the Savage Lovecast? There was a similar question there the other week. It was about what pronoun to use when discussing someone's "previous" sex. Even Dan Savage was stumped and put the call out for opinions from the very people being discussed.

i would say the pronoun of choice of the person.
if you don't know the pronoun of choice, then "they" is probably ok.

it really depends on the person

i got this elsewhere

 

[taubstumm]

How do you feel about it now @taubstumm?

I'm still finding it hard to process that s/he doesn't ultimately want to undergo a full sex-change but I guess time will tell with that kind of thing.

how i feel, in particular, about this case... is probably irrelevant.

but, in general, there’s a denotative problem here that i’ve never really seen convincingly answered or explained (possibly the same basic problem that dan savage was running in to on the savage lovecast). maybe it will be some day.

(edit: @Gambra, i’d still be curious to hear more from you about all this, if you’re willing)

 

[GO]

I heard a thing on the RTE radio earlier about trans gender minors looking for the gov to enable parents to give permission for said minors to commence gender re assignment procedures.

I was fucking amazed.

Who the fuck is letting morons onto the radio to espouse this as a suitable path for 13 year old girls?

Its preposterous and opens up a whole raft of questions in my mind.

And more importantly..if we lived in a world where artificial quasi gender reassignment was'nt available..what would these poor kids aspire to then?

There was a young girl on saying she wanted to become a husband and a father..a father?

Now..can someone explain to me..who told her that was possible in this universe?
If she hadda said..and yeah..I want a beard and to be an ersatz father figure to a child..well then I woulda tought..good for you,have at it.Get a job cos its gonna cost ya big.

 

[Lili Marlene]

I heard a thing on the RTE radio earlier about trans gender minors looking for the gov to enable parents to give permission for said minors to commence gender re assignment procedures.

I was fucking amazed.

Who the fuck is letting morons onto the radio to espouse this as a suitable path for 13 year old girls?

I've been asking this for 20 years.

And more importantly..if we lived in a world where artificial quasi gender reassignment was'nt available..what would these poor kids aspire to then?

Massive breakdowns? Suicide?

There was a young girl on saying she wanted to become a husband and a father..a father?

Now..can someone explain to me..who told her that was possible in this universe?
If she hadda said..and yeah..I want a beard and to be an ersatz father figure to a child..well then I woulda tought..good for you,have at it.Get a job cos its gonna cost ya big.

hey if you can't say dumb things when you're 13 when can you?


I tend to agree that it seems very, VERY young to have this decision made up but.... well... i'm sure a certain amount of preparation can be done at that point, if only to inform them of the possibilities and difficulties involved.

 

[7 - No tomorrow]

Hold on, everyone here knew their orientation at 13. I knew as clear as a bell that I wanted to spend as much time as would ever be allowed with boobs and vaginas.
So why can this kid not know what their sexual identity is?
I mean as far as gender reassignment goes, you'd think you could let the kid explore that part of their identity in other ways than surgery.