why are there so many threads started by men on thumped about how shit women are? (2 Viewers)

[oh shit]

y'know jane, if there's one thing abominable abdominal surgery makes you realise it's the importance of a high-fibre diet

 

[jane]

y'know jane, if there's one thing abominable abdominal surgery makes you realise it's the importance of a high-fibre diet

It really moves me when you say that.

 

[Vinnie]

I'm a humanist. That means I get to make jokes about whatever I like

 

[Bellatrix]

There are very few gay people on Thumped (or at least very few people who are out in the Thumped context.

There are definitely some around though and I find it bizarre that either people assume everyone on thumped is straight or just don't give a shit about how offensive they are.

It reminds me of a friend of mine whose parents are separated. He went to Belvedere and during a religion class in first year they were discussing something to do with families. When he asked about families with separated parents, one of the guys in his class turned around and said "Je-sus. This isn't America."

 

[CitySickness]

 

[Bellatrix]

Hahahaha!

Where's societal Cliff?

 

[CitySickness]

It reminds me of a friend of mine whose parents are separated. He went to Belvedere and during a religion class in first year they were discussing something to do with families. When he asked about families with separated parents, one of the guys in his class turned around and said "Je-sus. This isn't America."

Dude was joking.

 

[Space]

There are definitely some around though and I find it bizarre that either people assume everyone on thumped is straight or just don't give a shit about how offensive they are.

It reminds me of a friend of mine whose parents are separated. He went to Belvedere and during a religion class in first year they were discussing something to do with families. When he asked about families with separated parents, one of the guys in his class turned around and said "Je-sus. This isn't America."

I should probably be quoting Jane's post but I'd like to add that the whole "prod" thing on thumped gets my goat regularly but fuck it the majority of people in the world are pricks and there's very little we can do about it.

 

[Bellatrix]

Dude was joking.

No, no he wasn't.

Still, it's good to know if I or anyone I know ever has a problem establishing the tone of a conversation, we have somewhere to turn.

 

[Corey]

I should probably be quoting Jane's post but I'd like to add that the whole "prod" thing on thumped gets my goat regularly.

Come on. 800 years never gets old.


arfarfarf.

 

[CitySickness]

I have a bit of a problem with the concept of norms as some sort of prison that we can't escape from (but as a white hetero male, I would say that, wouldn't I?) - because in some cases it can be powerfully deployed to shut down debate. It's a useful tool for self-knowledge and getting your head around power relations, but the assumption that you're probably, for example, talking to a heterosexual on Thumped is actually reasonably sensible in terms of statistical probability. What I'm saying is: norms get to be norms for reasons beyond maintainance of a hierarchy.

 

[jane]

There are definitely some around though and I find it bizarre that either people assume everyone on thumped is straight or just don't give a shit about how offensive they are.

It reminds me of a friend of mine whose parents are separated. He went to Belvedere and during a religion class in first year they were discussing something to do with families. When he asked about families with separated parents, one of the guys in his class turned around and said "Je-sus. This isn't America."

This is the thing. I don't know who is gay or straight, but it doesn't seem to me like it's the most queer-positive place, so I wouldn't be surprised if people didn't feel safe being out on Thumped -- it's not as queer friendly as it could be. And it doesn't take much for a place to be queer-friendly, just recognising that not everyone's love interests are the opposite gender/sex, and not calling people 'faggots', which, well, you don't have to be queer to find homophobia offensive.

But yeah, I don't like the whole hetero-privilege thing, either. I mean, it's easy for me. But just because it's easy for a straight white woman to talk about her straight white fella doesn't mean I don't at least try to remember that it isn't easy for everyone. People go, "So, Jane, do you have a boyfriend?" And it's all too easy for me to go, "Why yes, I do." without thinking about how much more awkward it would be to have to go through fifteen different hurdles and ten levels of awkwardness (if not hostility) if I had a girlfriend and not a boyfriend. Or if I were in the situation of some people I've met in the last few years, whose partners are neither Irish nor white, and whose families refuse to accept them, who can't bring the boyfriend home for Sunday dinner, let alone ever have him accepted as part of the family.

When I first came to Ireland, I was pretty shocked that everyone operated under the assumption that the person he or she was talking to was straight, had two parents who were married to each other, and celebrated Christmas. I never assumed it was out of hatred or anything, just that, for so many years, this was the norm in Ireland. It was a reasonable expectation, obviously, but the dynamic has changed, it just takes a while for the discourses to change, too, and a bit longer for those things to become a natural way of doing things, not a conscious one.

Coming from a place where it is part of natural discourse to use 'holidays' instead of 'Christmas' (unless you're Bill O'Reilly), and where you don't make assumptions about family structure, I found it was one of those things I hadn't really thought about before. It was just what came naturally because it's how I was raised: not to assume everyone is Christian, and not to assume that someone's got two parents married to each other. People are changing the way they interact, and it seems more common now to ask, "Are your folks still together?" than it used to be (and my answer remains as convoluted as ever), but it's still near-on impossible to find religion-neutral holiday cards.

 

[Space]

Come on. 800 years never gets old.


arfarfarf.

Hey I never said "brits out" wasn't funny.

 

[Vinnie]

Edit: Beaten to it

 

[Jerry Twig]

I could argue as a woman that I find the shoe shopping and make-up threads to be sexist in that they are promoting a stereotype of womanly behaviour.

well as a man I find them condescending to say the least.
There's a football forum on Thumped but nowhere does it say 'hey men, football over here', and you don't get that type of bullshit in the forum either. so why the need for it when it comes to shoe shopping? I like shoe shopping and I resent the notion that there's some sort of gender exclusivity associated with it in those threads.

 

[CitySickness]

No, no he wasn't.

Still, it's good to know if I or anyone I know ever has a problem establishing the tone of a conversation, we have somewhere to turn.

Easy.

The reason I say he was (ok, with the caveat of "probably", I wasn't there) joking was that it sounds like the typical poker-face Belvedere sense of humour that I know from 6 years of dubious schooling there. It may be a ferocious hotbed of homophobia and sexism, but probably about 50% of that guy's class have seperated parents. I won't rule out the possibility that he was actually just a fucking dumbass, though.

 

[Bellatrix]

What I'm saying is: norms get to be norms for reasons beyond maintainance of a hierarchy.

Not so, mon frere. Maleness has always been regarded as a societal norm, despite all statistical evidence to the contrary.

Sorry about the snarkiness, by the way. I really need to cut down on that.

 

[Squiggle]

well as a man I find them condescending to say the least.
There's a football forum on Thumped but nowhere does it say 'hey men, football over here', and you don't get that type of bullshit in the forum either. so why the need for it when it comes to shoe shopping? I like shoe shopping and I resent the notion that there's some sort of gender exclusivity associated with it in those threads.

As a girl who has attempted on occasion to express an opinion in "No Way Referee" I'll tell ya it's not a very friendly place.

I should add to this discussion that I don't view myself as a feminist. I hold that all individuals have the right to be treated with equality, dignity and respect regardless of any 'accidental' properties they may posess such as age, gender, race, religion etc. However, neither can I describe myself as a humanist in the strict sense of the word.

 

[MDR]

The idea that I am some norm-zombie incapable of seeing beyond my own blissful conformity is so patronising and simplistic that it's unreal. It's the kind of point that makes me bypass these threads as pointless, endless exchanges of essays where nobody changes their mind about anything.

I'm out.

 

[jane]

I have a bit of a problem with the concept of norms as some sort of prison that we can't escape from (but as a white hetero male, I would say that, wouldn't I?) - because in some cases it can be powerfully deployed to shut down debate. It's a useful tool for self-knowledge and getting your head around power relations, but the assumption that you're probably, for example, talking to a heterosexual on Thumped is actually reasonably sensible in terms of statistical probability. What I'm saying is: norms get to be norms for reasons beyond maintainance of a hierarchy.

Yes, it's true that on Thumped, it is statistically probable that the person you are talking to is white, able-bodied, straight, and probably from Ireland, where he or she grew up in a non-divorced household (despite the fact that the parents may well have hated each other, they couldn't have been divorced legally anyway).

But acceptance isn't just about statistical probability, it's about valuing different people's experiences, making sure that the space you are in, even if in numbers, certain norms are dominant, is safe for people who, in certain categories, identify or are identified differently. I personally feel more comfortable in spaces that are queer-positive and non-racist and non-sexist, whether or not there are non-white or queer people present. Maybe not everyone is aware of it, and I can't pretend I'm aware of it all of the time everywhere, but we all should be aware of our privilege. On my recent visit to Austria, I was startled by a few pieces of racist graffiti that reminded me that perhaps I would not have had such a good time if I weren't white. It didn't wreck my fun, but I was aware of it on a few occasions.

I was recently at an Event That Will Remain Nameless And Which I Think I Told You About, and someone I was talking to asked if I was part of a neo-conservatie organisation. Given the event I was at, it was a reasonable assumption to make, given statistical probability. I just said, "Uh, no, that wouldn't really be my thing at all," and the conversation continued in a friendly and civil manner. It might not have been the case if the person I was talking to was Bill O'Reilly or Fred Phelps, and it might have been different if I were queer or Muslim or something else that isn't necessarily visible.

If you meet a person, it's a reasonable assumption that they can hear you. But if he or she turns out to be deaf, you do your best to speak to him or her face-on so he or she can read your lips. The majority of people you meet may not be hearing-impaired, but there's still a responsibility to treat those who are hearing impaired with dignity and respect, and make it as easy as possible for him or her not to have hearing impairment be any more of an obstacle than it already can be.

It should be the same when it comes to sexuality, but it means being aware of our own hetero-privilege in order to create an atmosphere that is queer-positive.