This is very pertinent. On a few occasions recently, I've been walking down the road and there's been a group of young lads hanging around, wearing tracksuits kind of lads so you kind of take a look at them and go "Oh what are these pricks up to?".And is nothing to do with some Men's Rights bollocks, it's because it has a real outcome on people. If you say "see them lads over there? Total cunts.", you're doing two things. You're saying "those lads over there are total cunts". And you're also saying "I'm in an outgroup, and we're *not* a total cunts". That's how these statements work.
I'm 38 and me and my friends would be a bit like this. Minus the hugging, we grew up in the 80s so it's not something we'd do spontaneously or voluntarily. But a fair few of us would would have various issues around mental health etc but we've been fairly open with each other about it. Personally speaking, I've been for counselling twice and what my mates will think about it has never been a worry for me. The bigger issue for me was having to admit to myself that I'd gotten to the stage where I needed it.Is there not a bit of a shift in all that lately?
My brother is in his mid 20s and is very honest and open with his friends. The whole group of them are the same way. They’re affectionate with each other, as in hugs all around.
They’re also able to call each other out on their bullshit or when they’re acting like an asshole, which can happen.
These are all ghetto kids who’ve seen the worst there is to see, so I don’t know if that’s something in their favour or not.
Yeah, I think this is really true.Its not only diverting attention to be like "lets take gender, skin color, class out of the equation" or "sure women experience that but men also", its generally ignoring the greater structural issues which feed into certain groups experiencing disproportionate levels of violence/abuse/issues. When you say "its derivative to say "x general statement" instead of looking at the behaviour", guess what, those structures are what support and create that behaviour in the first place.
I do think it's getting better over all too. I can see in my own kids school they're already teaching mindfulness.I’m sticking with my “it’s getting better” theory.
There’s a lad that worked for us for a few years, I’ll call him Shane.
Shane was the local Hurling and Rugby star in the making, who received a lot of attention from women ages 18-50+.
He was disgusted by some of the guys in the bar and how they were with us.
There was a creepy fucker that kept “accidentally” brushing off my chest whenever I was working that end of the bar. He’s blind in one eye so I was giving him the benefit of the doubt but after 3 times, it’s not an accident.
Shane stood in front of me any time the creep was near saying “He wont like my chest as much as yours” and made sure I was ok for the rest of the night.
The rescuing goes both ways though. I heard screaming one night and people chanting “pink pussy”. Ran down to see what was happening and he was almost cowering from a gang of women aged 45-60 looking for a “Shane Special” cocktail.
He’s really close to his sister and collects her and her friends from parties still, to make sure everyone gets home ok.
I love that kid, he’s my surrogate lil brother. He knew I’d been going through a rough patch the last while and texts to make sure I’m ok and to talk.
I’m off on a tangent here and not making much sense.
The kids are going to figure this shitshow out for us.
I'll put my hand up and admit that I need to get better at this. I don't meet or come in to contact with people who are that awful. So when I do I'm always kind of shocked and never have that good counter argument preparedOn the contrary, I think EXACTLY what we need is men shouldering some of the burden of talking to and about other men. As you said, there are plently of women who are happy to and want to be given the space to speak for themselves, but men do need to take on the responsibility of talking to and challenging eachother.
Because so often in these situations men do not call out other men, they aren't the dissenting voice in a locker room conversation, and they don't have the hard conversations about consent with their peers. its very easy for us all to overlook comments in passing as comments, and say nothing. For my money its in saying the hard thing that men could throw their weight.
Its related, tangentially, though not exactly what we're talking about but it pissed me off here recently enough in the last few months when I read what I percieved as a pretty gross transphobic comment, and everyone skirted on by it.
edited for all the spelling mistakes.
Arguments don't work for changing opinions*So when I do I'm always kind of shocked and never have that good counter argument prepared
Great pointI am in the middle of teaching a course on genetics and behaviour to undergrads. One of the main points I make is that generally it is very hard to say "This genetic profile gives you this behavioural profile" - i.e. there's no gay gene, no intelligence gene, no autism gene, no "being a prick" gene. But I immediately follow it up with the point that there are some obvious, reproducible and undeniable effects of genetics on behaviour. The number one predictor of violent behaviour in humans (and mammals more generally), more than anything, is the presence or absence of a Y chromosome. Culture, upbringing, nationality, class, etc. are drops in the ocean compared to it.
For the record, I started this thread, and I gave it its title. I agree with a lot of @flashback's sentiment, and it really upsets me when I see men-as-a-group disparaged ... but ... well, it's only the clickbaity headline that says anything about pigs, there's nothing in the text of my posts that's anti-men AFAICSFor the record, I never called men pigs nor did I start this thread
I concur. Also, perhaps why in cities it seemed less daunting because I surrounded myself with decent people. Down here, I don't have that luxury. I get what comes through the door, not to say they are all disrespectful, sexist and racist but the percentage is high.I can absolutely confirm this. You were, still are, a really lovable bunch of properly decent men.
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