Why men behave like pigs (1 Viewer)

egg_

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In which @egg_ theorises about why so many men behave abominably towards women (see @Jill Hives and @riath 's posts in the "Your work situation" thread)

Basically in my experience of country pub situations, men's disrespect towards women has nothing to do with individual women at all. The men's audience is other men - essentially the pub is the stage on which they perform for each other. Individual women, and "women" in the abstract, are pantomime villains, and the men in a group gain status in the group by scoring points against the villain

I really don't think this has anything to do with sexual frustration among the men - I know a handful of as-far-as-I-can-tell happily-married men who play this game to some degree.

I also think it's a factor in why some of these men go off the rails - they know that the people they're disrespecting are real human beings, not pantomime villains, and they're ashamed of the way they carry on. Their selves in the game aren't their authentic selves, but the game is the backbone of their day-to-day social interactions, and they don't know how to stop playing

Anyway, there yiz go. tl;dr - all the world's a stage
 

7 - No tomorrow

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I like this game theory.
You have a better read on the group than I have.


I just don’t see it as real sexual frustration as much as the bile comes from a mirror being thrown up to their true status.
A status which some of them arguably play the game to deny.

In the stage game with the lads they get to act like they have all the answers and could take on the world
Here is someone desirable that they know they could never have, silently yelling the opposite of that


Sexual frustration would imply they had a shot to begin with – they know they don’t – and the self-hatred that engenders gets bounced back out as demeaning shit talk
 

pete

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We’re all just shaved apes throwing shit at each other, trying to claw our way up that social hierarchy.

I mean I’m not, but the rest of you?

Animals.
 

hiadudiad?

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It's habit and it's their world. If the future of your life is work, sleep and a night out with the lads then you risk excluding yourself if you break with or challenge this foundation of life and then what? You can't go out any more. The genuinely scary ones then have no realistic frame of reference for their behavior.
 

egg_

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I like this game theory
It's my big thing these days - I gave a lightning talk at a big work thing in the states 2 weeks ago about how what you think of as your "dreams" are just fantasies driven by a biological urge to ascend a dominance hierarchy

Got a fairly mixed reception, FWIW :p Americans don't like to have people make fun of their dreams.
 

Lili Marlene

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You know that Margaret Atwood quote that often comes up these days,

"Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them."

It's a good quote but I often feel what people miss in it is that these two things are connected, men (#notallmen) will kill women so that they're not laughed at. That's the psychological problem that needs to be tackled, not only that women are in danger all the time*


*although the band-aid of keeping women safe obviously has its uses, like staying alive.
 

egg_

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Men will also kill each other so their mates will not laugh at them. And themselves.

IMO understanding the status games we play well enough to be able to change them is the only hope we have of fixing that
 

7 - No tomorrow

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Unfair to use pigs apes and animals as derogatory and equivalent terms
I think we're just using the terms to describe being in thrall to our baser instincts

I'd say teh pigs would be grand with the slagging if we'd stop cutting their balls off and all the mass slaughter
 

7 - No tomorrow

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Plenty of dickhead women out there too boss.
Lots of them. From the batshit to the evil.
But we don’t live in a matriarchy, yet.
The effect of men and rape culture on society is far more pernicious.

If I opened a flower shop in Ballybumfuck, my female clientele are far less likely to demean me and make me feel unsafe.*

The ladies have their own set of issues, but it’s not really what we’re dealing with here.


*note to self - book idea
 

Lili Marlene

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Have to disagree, that is definitely part of the issue we're dealing with. I've seen women laugh at men for showing emotion in public or parrot the usual "i'm all for equality but feminism has gone too far and men should be men" talking points.

If we were only talking about addressing the symptoms and trying to literally stop physical/sexual violence to women in a specific area then we could say save it for later but it seems pretty appropriate to this thread.
 

pete

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Have to disagree, that is definitely part of the issue we're dealing with. I've seen women laugh at men for showing emotion in public or parrot the usual "i'm all for equality but feminism has gone too far and men should be men" talking points.

If we were only talking about addressing the symptoms and trying to literally stop physical/sexual violence to women in a specific area then we could say save it for later but it seems pretty appropriate to this thread.
Take it to the why women behave like pigs thread.
READ THE CHARTER
 

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