Why men behave like pigs (1 Viewer)

Squiggle

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On average at least one post per page, but you clearly read what men have to say with different eyes, and that's ok. It confirms the way the world is.
 

egg_

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Actually deleted a post there, came out more facetious than I intended.

I dunno @Squiggle when I called you out I thought you'd just say "oh yeah sorry"

I actually thought that's what you had done when you said "I wasn't absolving anyone"

... and now we're off on this tangent I don't really understand. I can't defend my interpretation of what other people have said. I could be picking them up wrong. I picked you up wrong I guess
 
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Lili Marlene

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All my posts in this thread can be summed up with "the patriarchy harms everyone." It seemed a bit over-simplistic but I probably should have just said it once and left it at that. I'm out.
 

riath

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I’m sticking with my “it’s getting better” theory.
There’s a lad that worked for us for a few years, I’ll call him Shane.
Shane was the local Hurling and Rugby star in the making, who received a lot of attention from women ages 18-50+.
He was disgusted by some of the guys in the bar and how they were with us.
There was a creepy fucker that kept “accidentally” brushing off my chest whenever I was working that end of the bar. He’s blind in one eye so I was giving him the benefit of the doubt but after 3 times, it’s not an accident.
Shane stood in front of me any time the creep was near saying “He wont like my chest as much as yours” and made sure I was ok for the rest of the night.

The rescuing goes both ways though. I heard screaming one night and people chanting “pink pussy”. Ran down to see what was happening and he was almost cowering from a gang of women aged 45-60 looking for a “Shane Special” cocktail.
He’s really close to his sister and collects her and her friends from parties still, to make sure everyone gets home ok.

I love that kid, he’s my surrogate lil brother. He knew I’d been going through a rough patch the last while and texts to make sure I’m ok and to talk.

I’m off on a tangent here and not making much sense.
The kids are going to figure this shitshow out for us.
 

flashback

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@_egg none of these were worthy of calling out for "absolving abuse"? Just my comments about why some women act like "dickheads" sometimes which were a reaction to 4 pages which can largely be summed up as "it's all women's fault anyway" with the occasional "I'm still a nice guy even though women have been evil to me but I can see why some men snap". Perspective seemed to be required, after all, I read pages of male perspective without calling anyone names.

Edit... I hate trying to post stuff from my phone
Gah. I'm hating myself the more I involve myself with this.

My issue isn't whether or not people are nice guys (I'm not) or have had women being evil to them or anything else. All of that is anecdotal.

There's a clear reality here:

Men are more sexually abusive and violent than women. Men have an elevated and unreasonably privileged role in society. Men are more physically violent than women. In almost all social scenarios men behave poorly relative to women.

I'm not arguing any of that. My sole point is this: you cannot make a generalized statement like this about any group other than "men". There is not a single other group you can substitute in the title of this thread without wholesale and justified condemnation.

My point is it's wrong to make these statements. About any group.

And is nothing to do with some Men's Rights bollocks, it's because it has a real outcome on people. If you say "see them lads over there? Total cunts.", you're doing two things. You're saying "those lads over there are total cunts". And you're also saying "I'm in an outgroup, and we're *not* a total cunts". That's how these statements work.

My point is that if you make these statements, generalize a group and people believe these statements, both sides of them. And not only is it wrong to do this, it results in people not seeing reality properly. It's unbelievably damaging.

What I'm trying to say is simple: Making these types of statements is horrible, regardless of the group you make them about. It has real, harmful effects on real people.

There exist people who are horrific, bullying, violent, and abusive. We should be on the lookout for these kinds of people, we should talk about that issue. Not the skin colour of some person that was abusive, not their gender, not the hair colour. The behaviour is the problem here.

But we don't do that. We make some stupid shit derivative statement, and rally around that instead.

"Men behave like pigs." This is a paralyzingly stupid and harmful statement.
 

egg_

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I’m sticking with my “it’s getting better” theory.
Here's some other evidence. Boys don't fight anymore in school - not at all in primary, and hardly at all in secondary. This is according to my daughters fwiw, and it's possible they're attending unusual schools, but still - fighting in school was utterly routine when I was a kid, and seems to be far less common now. Seems like progress to me
 

egg_

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Oh and c'mere, I feel like I've learned something important from this thread - if someone is talking about male bad behaviour, and someone else says "well women can behave badly too", then it's possible to interpret that second statement as an excuse for men's behaviour. That interpretation had never occurred to me before, and goes a little way to explain some of the conflagrations I see online
 

hiadudiad?

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I guess it's more like diverting attention.
"You were mean to me"
"Ok but why are you singling me out and you haven't you even mentioned Hitler and his crimes against all humanity? That has to be acknowledged."

I agree with everyone here, btw
 

GARYXKNIFEDX

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Here's some other evidence. Boys don't fight anymore in school - not at all in primary, and hardly at all in secondary. This is according to my daughters fwiw, and it's possible they're attending unusual schools, but still - fighting in school was utterly routine when I was a kid, and seems to be far less common now. Seems like progress to me

Yes they do. Not loads,but I've broken up several fist fights on yard.
 

egg_

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Hah ok, maybe they are in unusual schools. Nothing unusual on the surface though. The younger one is in a small country school, older one in a big town school. Both mixed schools - maybe that's why it seems like such a contrast to my own (boys-only school) experiences?
 

hiadudiad?

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There wasn't a lot of fighting in my school either, mostly just talk about scheduled fights which rarely happened and when they did were mostly just strength contests.
 

riath

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My old primary school was a DEIS school and in the late 80s/early 90s there would normally be about 3-5 fights a day.
My daughter went to the same one and it was less than 1 a week.
Same shitty area with most of the same people but there’s been a huge change.
We had some youth clubs set up and a Garda youth diversion programme so that might have helped.
 

jonah

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Its not only diverting attention to be like "lets take gender, skin color, class out of the equation" or "sure women experience that but men also", its generally ignoring the greater structural issues which feed into certain groups experiencing disproportionate levels of violence/abuse/issues. When you say "its derivative to say "x general statement" instead of looking at the behaviour", guess what, those structures are what support and create that behaviour in the first place.
 

hermie

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Which is more prevalent, to have issues with groups of lads egging each other on or the lone wolf when he thinks no-one else is looking?
 

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