not having kids (1 Viewer)

[pete]

I forget the details, but I think you need one stay at home parent and a certain income level.

 

[ernesto]

I forget the details, but I think you need one stay at home parent and a certain income level.

ok. cheers

 

[ernesto]

dbl-pst

 

[mr pharmacist!!!!1]

i really should of started reading this thread from the start as opposed to starting from the end and working backwards.

 

[ernesto]

i really should of started reading this thread from the start as opposed to starting from the end and working backwards.

thats how i read magazines

 

[theweeyin]

if Janer was here he'd say that people who don't want babies are just selfish and self-absorbed, and ye'd all have a good go at him. ah...good times.

Janer is 42, with two lady friends and no children... hmm... yes... I can see your point.

That's what I thought.


Also, I get much more of the opposite. I'm only 23 so I'm "too young, have much more of life to experience, lots to do before I'd want to be saddled with kids" etc.

 

[nlgbbbblth]

I know, it's bizzare, the reactions to it. I don't have a car - that's a choice I've made but I don't get particularly emotional reactions to not having a car. .

I don't have one either and do get surprised looks from people when I tell them I walk or use public transport by choice.

They relax a little - but not completely - when I say my wife has a car and I can use it if I want.

Suppose it comes from living in the country during 'boom times'.

 

[pete]

I forget the details, but I think you need one stay at home parent and a certain income level.

ok. cheers

more details here http://www.adoptionboard.ie/domestic/nonfamily.php but nothing about what I heard about / said above. I suppose it falls under the somewhat subjective "suitability" criteria.

 

[carbide]

more details here http://www.adoptionboard.ie/domestic/nonfamily.php but nothing about what I heard about / said above. I suppose it falls under the somewhat subjective "suitability" criteria.

i know two (separate) women who went through the process as single prospective parents - both international (both vietnam actually). both older, financially secure and absolutely always having wanted a child more than anything. both found the process extremely hard at points (being grilled extensively about having ever been in counselling - seriously, i know very few people who haven't, and i don't see that as necessarily positive) and it dug up a ton of stuff they had been through.

one was taken as a test case and was denied, and the other is now a parent.

not sure i have a point other than the subjectivity. but as someone who has never thought they've wanted to have children, i really see the difference between them and me - they want this so badly, and i can only understand it in the abstract, as much as i love kids. (incidentally, i realise i'm young and it can totally change, and i used to get stuck into endless conversations about this but now never want to talk about it unless it's with a really close friend, or a long-term partner it would affect.)

 

[broken arm]

i'm young and it can totally change, and i used to get stuck into endless conversations about this but now never want to talk about it unless it's with a really close friend, or a long-term partner it would affect.)

jaysus sure my mum had three kids at your age and she was rearing them on one salary and sure jaysus you have it too easy an................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
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.

 

[frona]

(being grilled extensively about having ever been in counselling - seriously, i know very few people who haven't, and i don't see that as necessarily positive) and it dug up a ton of stuff they had been through.

Do they want people who have, or have never been to counselling?

 

[jane]

Do they want people who have, or have never been to counselling?

Yeah, that kind of freaks me out. If they use that against a person, then aren't they suggesting that it's better to deny any emotional problems than to have dealt with them? I'm sure there are also many people who've sought counselling for fertility issues, too.

The adoption process in Ireland is partly made difficult because so many kids stay in care -- people don't give up their parental rights, which is what has to happen for someone else to adopt them. It's actually rare that babies or very young children (which is what most people want, understandably) are actually adoptable. And part of the issue is very valid: there are probably lots of people whose children are in care but who would really like to be good parents, and still want a chance. But the result is that you get people who want kids and can't have them, and people who don't want the kids they do have, and the kids are the ones who suffer the most.

I read in the UK that a couple was rejected because their Body Mass Index was too high.

The age limit, too, is a problem, which is loopy.

As for international adoption, there are certainly ethical issues. Mostly everyone involved means well, but it's still difficult. This is a really good article by a woman who adopted a Guatemalan child here: http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2007/11/did-i-steal-my-daughter.html

I read another one by an adoptee who was born in Korea and adopted by a white American family, but I can't remember where. It raised some extremely interesting issues.

There's no easy answer.

In fact, there are actually a load of articles on that site that cover it. Very interesting: http://search.atomz.com/search?sp-a=sp1002c8b7&sp-t=search&sp-f=iso-8859-1&sp-p=all&sp-q=adoption

 

[F. Fred Palakon]

As for international adoption, there are certainly ethical issues. Mostly everyone involved means well, but it's still difficult. This is a really good article by a woman who adopted a Guatemalan child here: http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2007/11/did-i-steal-my-daughter.html

That's a pretty interesting article. Speaking as somebody who has no kids, I find it strange that the reason she gives for adopting is that they were only willing to be parents again if the child were a girl. What?

 

[frona]

That's a pretty interesting article. Speaking as somebody who has no kids, I find it strange that the reason she gives for adopting is that they were only willing to be parents again if the child were a girl. What?

I thought that was dodgy too. Well, maybe dodgy is too strong a word. It still didn't seem like a good enough reason to me.

 

[jane]

I thought that was dodgy too. Well, maybe dodgy is too strong a word. It still didn't seem like a good enough reason to me.

I think the whole point of the article was to kind of come clean about what happens when you adopt internationally. I guess they really wanted a girl, and that partly drove their decision, but in the context of American middle-class parenthood, everything is so over-managed that it would be unlikely to raise any eyebrows there. Not that I'm defending it, but people would just be like, "Oh, yeah, and I wanted a child who would play Mozart by age three, so I went to a sperm bank instead of using the seed of my accountant husband."

Also, more girls than boys are available for adoption, so maybe it seemed like, "Hey, we want a girl, and there are loads of girl babies who've been given up, so maybe we can do a good thing...." Who knows.

This is I think one of the most interesting things:

people have been parenting children not born to them since the dawn of time. But adoption as an irrevocable severing of a child's relationship with her biological family is largely a European and American practice.

I mean, in most of the world, if you can't have your own kids, you would probably still be so much a part of the lives of the children in your extended family that it might not be such an issue.

 

[Unicron]

But adoption as an irrevocable severing of a child's relationship with her biological family

That's a bad thing is it?

 

[Catwoman]

That's a pretty interesting article. Speaking as somebody who has no kids, I find it strange that the reason she gives for adopting is that they were only willing to be parents again if the child were a girl. What?

While I don't necesarily agree with choosing the sex of your child, I do understand it. My sister in law has 3 boys and would so love a girl. Part of me thinks it's a silly attitude, part of me understands why she would want a girl.

 

[Squiggle]

While I don't necesarily agree with choosing the sex of your child, I do understand it. My sister in law has 3 boys and would so love a girl. Part of me thinks it's a silly attitude, part of me understands why she would want a girl.

My sister wanted a boy when she was having her first child. Her husband didn't (he got teased a lot because of his surname and felt a girl wouldn't have to deal with it). They had a girl. Second child round they both wanted another girl, but most people my sister said this too refused to believe that a man could NOT want to have a son and I found myself having to defend my sis several times.

It was really weird, yet another thing that people didn't seem to be able to mind their own business about. Fair enough, they asked my sis and she answered. But the rest of us should have had to deal with "Don't you think it's awful for poor (sister's husband) that (sister) doesn't want a boy? He must want a son." "No, he doesn't. He never wanted to have a boy. Now mind your own business and stop gossiping maliciously about my sister and her husband."

 

[jane]

That's a bad thing is it?

They aren't saying it's a good or bad thing, just that it is more a Western thing. I think what's kind of left out is that for a lot of non-Western children who end up in orphanages, that *is* a severing of the relationship with the biological family. their only real shot, given the conditions in some of those places, is to be adopted.

But then again, you get the ethics of the international adoption world. What do you do? You can give a child a home. The child needs a home. But there are still ethical issues in doing that. And then, if you choose not to adopt because of those ethical issues, a child that would otherwise have had a home will not have a chance in life. So there's a whole new crop of ethical issues.

I would have a very hard time if I couldn't get preggers, but I don't have any worry about adopting. I mean, I love my dog and I didn't give birth to him, and while I don't deny the biological connection, it might be overemphasised. I have a funny feeling that my own biological mothering instinct is strong enough to mother a fricking pot plant if you put a nappy on it and gave it a name. Within about 24 hours, I'd be posting on the pics of your sprogs thread and referring to it as 'planty poopants'.

My only worry would be that the fact that I've had bouts of depression and anxiety would rule me out. Or that by the time I realised I wasn't going to get knocked up, I'd be too old to be allowed to adopt.

By the way, the age limit is crazy and brings me back the the ethics thing. Is it better for a child to have no parents than to have a ma who is 45 and was really depressed when she was doing her PhD and worries constantly about being good enough and went to talk to someone about it so it wouldn't wreck her life? I think there are adoption agencies out there who would think that yes, it's better not to risk taking the child out of the orphanage.

 

[jane]

My sister wanted a boy when she was having her first child. Her husband didn't (he got teased a lot because of his surname and felt a girl wouldn't have to deal with it). They had a girl. Second child round they both wanted another girl, but most people my sister said this too refused to believe that a man could NOT want to have a son and I found myself having to defend my sis several times.

It was really weird, yet another thing that people didn't seem to be able to mind their own business about. Fair enough, they asked my sis and she answered. But the rest of us should have had to deal with "Don't you think it's awful for poor (sister's husband) that (sister) doesn't want a boy? He must want a son." "No, he doesn't. He never wanted to have a boy. Now mind your own business and stop gossiping maliciously about my sister and her husband."

I do NOT look forward to the constant judgement people seem to think it's okay to inflict on parents and the expectant. CHRIST.

Mr Jane doesn't want a boy because he wants a son, he kind of wants one because he's so terrified of having a girl because all he'd do is worry, and we both worry about bringing a girl into a world that can be pretty harsh on girl nippers.

I just hope I don't die in labour, and I would hope he or she has ten fingers and ten toes, but that if she or he doesn't, there's enough support there so potential can be reached. That's all. I'm naturally neurotic, so boy or girl doesn't matter to me -- I'll worry like crazy regardless.