not having kids (1 Viewer)

[magicbastarder]

haven't talked to her about it in ages, but a friend of my mum who works with troubled kids reckons a lot of the troubles come from how people react to adoption.
she said the number of adopted kids referred to them was way, way above what you'd expect if adoption had no part to play.

my own anecdote; i can remember five suicides from my peer group when i was growing up, all blokes. i know for sure two of them were adoptees, and a friend reckons another of the was also an adoptee.

 

[Catwoman]

haven't talked to her about it in ages, but a friend of my mum who works with troubled kids reckons a lot of the troubles come from how people react to adoption.
she said the number of adopted kids referred to them was way, way above what you'd expect if adoption had no part to play.

my own anecdote; i can remember five suicides from my peer group when i was growing up, all blokes. i know for sure two of them were adoptees, and a friend reckons another of the was also an adoptee.

Interesting but I doubt the very fact that they had been adopted is the sole factor in suicide. Some adoptions don't turn out too well (anyone read Mommy Dearest?) and I know there are certain psychological issues involved when a child has been given up by the person/people who should love it the most, but the flip side is that they have parents who (usually) really, really want them.

 

[billygannon]

I do NOT look forward to the constant judgement people seem to think it's okay to inflict on parents and the expectant. CHRIST.

Mr Jane doesn't want a boy because he wants a son, he kind of wants one because he's so terrified of having a girl because all he'd do is worry, and we both worry about bringing a girl into a world that can be pretty harsh on girl nippers.

I just hope I don't die in labour, and I would hope he or she has ten fingers and ten toes, but that if she or he doesn't, there's enough support there so potential can be reached. That's all. I'm naturally neurotic, so boy or girl doesn't matter to me -- I'll worry like crazy regardless.

Girls are excellent. Much better than boys.

 

[Unicron]

I think what's kind of left out is that for a lot of non-Western children who end up in orphanages, that *is* a severing of the relationship with the biological family. their only real shot, given the conditions in some of those places, is to be adopted.

But then again, you get the ethics of the international adoption world. What do you do? You can give a child a home. The child needs a home. But there are still ethical issues in doing that. And then, if you choose not to adopt because of those ethical issues, a child that would otherwise have had a home will not have a chance in life. So there's a whole new crop of ethical issues.

That'd be a no-brainer for me. You can give the kid a better life than the orphanage can and so as long as you're not tearing a kid out of the mother's arms and she does want the kid to be put up for adoption then it's all good. Surely any mother knows what the consequences of placing a kid in one of those institutions is.

while I don't deny the biological connection, it might be overemphasised.

In my case it really is, I couldn't love my parents/sister any more than I do and it's something that's always bothered me when people have discusssed my status with me. They've got the notion that the woman who gave birth to me is my "real mother" because we share some genetic materials.

I've met both of the biologicals in the past couple of years (I was never curious but they came looking for me, I couldn't think of a reason t say no), they're both nice folks but I don't really feel anything about them, moreover I feel no connection to the kids they've subsequently had and who I've also met.

The notion that blood makes family is fuzzy thinking for me. Your family are the people who raise you and care for you and who you grow up with. It just so happens that in most cases those are your blood relations that you're making the bond with so the idea crops up that it's blood that makes the bond rather than the experiences you share. But that's just me, I'd never try to speak for any other adopted person which infuriates me a little about that article because it quotes a few adoptees and uses them as a basis to make blanket statements that apply to all adoptees. Where's the quotes from adoptees that are happy in their situation and who don't really care?

 

[jane]

That'd be a no-brainer for me. You can give the kid a better life than the orphanage can and so as long as you're not tearing a kid out of the mother's arms and she does want the kid to be put up for adoption then it's all good.

I think one of the problems is that this isn't always clear. Like yer wan Angelina Jolie, you know, where she gave him a new stupid Hollywood name instead of his own name? I think his mammy thought she was just putting him into the orphanage until she could look after him and didn't know he'd be adopted out. I don't know if that's true, but there are issues about biological parental consent.

 

[Unicron]

I think one of the problems is that this isn't always clear. Like yer wan Angelina Jolie, you know, where she gave him a new stupid Hollywood name instead of his own name?

My folks changed my name but I think kept my sisters. It's not really a big deal. Biomum didn't seem that put out when she found out about it.

I think his mammy thought she was just putting him into the orphanage until she could look after him and didn't know he'd be adopted out. I don't know if that's true, but there are issues about biological parental consent.

I would imagine that in a high profile celeb case like that where the whole deal is under such media scrutiny Jolie would have made sure that everything was in order. She'd be a fol otherwise.

 

[jane]

I would imagine that in a high profile celeb case like that where the whole deal is under such media scrutiny Jolie would have made sure that everything was in order. She'd be a fol otherwise.

Madonna didn't, though.

 

[Unicron]

Madonna didn't, though.

And she's obviously a fool, look at al the bad press she got. If there was something dodgy about Jolie they would have found someone to talk.

 

[frona]

And she's obviously a fool, look at al the bad press she got. If there was something dodgy about Jolie they would have found someone to talk.

There's lots of things dodgy about her. D'ya think if you liked sex with knives and everyone in the world knew about it you'd be allowed adopt a kid, huh?

 

[Unicron]

D'ya think if you liked sex with knives and everyone in the world knew about it you'd be allowed adopt a kid, huh?

Pretty sure no matter how kinky she is she won't be fucking little Maddox at any point.

 

[jane]

Pretty sure no matter how kinky she is she won't be fucking little Maddox at any point.

But if she wasn't famous and fabulously wealthy, she would probably not have made it through the screening process for adoption. Not that I'm saying she shouldn't -- she does clearly love her kiddies and is really genuinely devoted to them -- but that a non-celebrity with a similar profile would be unlikely to pass.

I think there was a thing about one of the kids' biological mother who had not intended to give the child up for adoption, but I can't remember where I read it. It was a while ago, but it was in the news for a good bit.

In any case, it was not an attempt to dismiss international adoption, which I certainly don't, but just that it is always going to be an ethical minefield.

 

[frona]

Pretty sure no matter how kinky she is she won't be fucking little Maddox at any point.

Ahh yeah, me too. I just think that if she was normal Joe Soap into violent, well-publicised sex she wouldn't have a hope in hell of adopting, s'alls I'm saying.

 

[nlgbbbblth]

The notion that blood makes family is fuzzy thinking for me. Your family are the people who raise you and care for you and who you grow up with. It just so happens that in most cases those are your blood relations that you're making the bond with so the idea crops up that it's blood that makes the bond rather than the experiences you share.

In my experience that's mostly true but there's a part of me that still finds it hard to cope with the fact that I was given up. Sure, there were valid reasons and I get along just fine but I doubt if I'll ever fully come to terms with it.

 

[Unicron]

In my experience that's mostly true but there's a part of me that still finds it hard to cope with the fact that I was given up. Sure, there were valid reasons and I get along just fine but I doubt if I'll ever fully come to terms with it.

Like I said I can only speak for myself.

 

[Corey]

Like I said I can only speak for myself.

Dunno if it's as widely accepted here yet as it should be. The institution of family inireland has been running side by side with the institution of the church.Attitudes have only started to change with this generation coming of age etc.

Little victories.

My next door neighbours adopted two russian brothers. They got the first wan at 7 months but had to wait 5 years for his brother. Mad little fuckers, but they're tight.

Hell of a process though apparantly.

 

[Catwoman]

Ahh yeah, me too. I just think that if she was normal Joe Soap into violent, well-publicised sex she wouldn't have a hope in hell of adopting, s'alls I'm saying.

Normal Joe Soaps tend not to have well-publicised sex. Well unless you're talking about that fella who fucked a bicycle.

Jane, are you confusing Maddox with David Banda? Cos the media claimed that his dad didn't know that the adoption was permanent (though I recall the Guardian interviewed him and he said no such thing).

 

[snakybus]

I want the next one to be a boy. I have a feeling I'm going to need backup in years to come.

 

[jane]

Normal Joe Soaps tend not to have well-publicised sex. Well unless you're talking about that fella who fucked a bicycle.

Jane, are you confusing Maddox with David Banda? Cos the media claimed that his dad didn't know that the adoption was permanent (though I recall the Guardian interviewed him and he said no such thing).

I thought I was going bonkers, but I found whatever it is that made me think that, although it was 'Pax' not Maddox.

http://thebosh.com/archives/2007/04/pax_thien_jolies_mom_talks_angelina_jolie_and_brad_pitt.php

This one takes a slightly different angle, although the mother's parents apparently did sign the papers without telling her:
http://www.usmagazine.com/paxs_mother_speaks

It's tough to know if any of that is true, or if any of it would breach a law, but the fact that it gets reported suggests to me that it's not impossible for these things to happen. And that because adoption is generally a western thing, it's also possible that people who put their kids in orphanages are maybe not entirely clear on the concept of what the practice actually entails. I remember the DAvid Banda's dad thing, but his confusion kind of makes sense in the context that it's not a practice that generally happens in Malawi, and whatever he said the red tops could quite easily have been translated into, "Dumb African doesn't know what adoption is" in tabloid language.

I think Romania stopped allowing international adoptions a few years ago because of the dodginess. Of course, that doesn't actually help either, since it means instead of kids being given homes elsewhere, they're pretty much doomed to stay in the orphanage unless they can be adopted domestically.

I think that now that international adoption is a bit more common in Ireland, and people are starting to accept more flexible definitions of family, it will be more 'normal'. You can be secretive if you've adopted from down the next county, but not if you've brought home a baby girl from China.

Two of my first cousins are adopted, and everyone was always very open about it, and even as a kid, I thought it was cool, like she was a secret agent or had special powers or something. I think I probably asked her about it when we were little, but I've never really thought about it.

 

[Dromed]

That'd be a no-brainer for me. You can give the kid a better life than the orphanage can and so as long as you're not tearing a kid out of the mother's arms and she does want the kid to be put up for adoption then it's all good. Surely any mother knows what the consequences of placing a kid in one of those institutions is.



In my case it really is, I couldn't love my parents/sister any more than I do and it's something that's always bothered me when people have discusssed my status with me. They've got the notion that the woman who gave birth to me is my "real mother" because we share some genetic materials.

I've met both of the biologicals in the past couple of years (I was never curious but they came looking for me, I couldn't think of a reason t say no), they're both nice folks but I don't really feel anything about them, moreover I feel no connection to the kids they've subsequently had and who I've also met.

The notion that blood makes family is fuzzy thinking for me. Your family are the people who raise you and care for you and who you grow up with. It just so happens that in most cases those are your blood relations that you're making the bond with so the idea crops up that it's blood that makes the bond rather than the experiences you share. But that's just me, I'd never try to speak for any other adopted person which infuriates me a little about that article because it quotes a few adoptees and uses them as a basis to make blanket statements that apply to all adoptees. Where's the quotes from adoptees that are happy in their situation and who don't really care?

This makes total sense ...the same way that there's an immediate presumption that a parent has an automatic bond with their biological child, which sometimes just doesn't happen.

 

[MDR]

I want the next one to be a boy. I have a feeling I'm going to need backup in years to come.

Or at least a female groom fan.