General election 2020 (3 Viewers)

[egg_]

As far as I can tell previous governments believed that we raised more corporation tax by having a lower rate rather than less - kinda like selling stuff cheaply, but selling more of it. It's very easy to claim they were all wrong, and they were morons/corrupt but ... well, I suppose we'll see soon enough!

 

[Lili Marlene]

Every time an Apple product is sold in Europe it is sold in Ireland on paper. Every time Apple makes 10 thousand euro in Europe they pay roughly 5 cent in tax. Tell me how this is fair or ok to anyone?

 

[therealjohnny]

Every time an Apple product is sold in Europe it is sold in Ireland on paper. Every time Apple makes 10 thousand euro in Europe they pay roughly 5 cent in tax. Tell me how this is fair or ok to anyone?

Why should the rich pay for your drugs and bastard children? Socialist commies leeching off the hard work of self-made billionaires

oh wait- i thought this was the US Politics thread

 

[ann post]

Contacts between political parties with a view to trying to form a government have begun in earnest.

The various parties are deciding their strategy on the formation of the next coalition following the outcome of the general election.

Sinn Féin has appointed Pearse Doherty to head its negotiating team.

LOL.

He A: wants to get the apple tax for houses and environments B: hates the insurance industry in its present form C: has said this week he wants finance in govt.

 

[7 - No tomorrow]

LOL.

He A: wants to get the apple tax for houses and environments B: hates the insurance industry in its present form C: has said this week he wants finance in govt.

They just interviewed him on DriveTime

He's doing his best to appear level-headed

 

[Unicron]

They just interviewed him on DriveTime

He's doing his best to appear level-headed

Was he shouting?

 

[7 - No tomorrow]

Was he shouting?

He was grand

It was the FF lad that sounded very peevish
"If they think running a government is so easy, let them do it so"
That kind of deal

 

[Unicron]

He was grand

It was the FF lad that sounded very peevish
"If they think running a government is so easy, let them do it so"
That kind of deal

Always think he sounds like he's giving a winning captain's speech after the all ireland.

 

[egg_]

Every time an Apple product is sold in Europe it is sold in Ireland on paper. Every time Apple makes 10 thousand euro in Europe they pay roughly 5 cent in tax. Tell me how this is fair or ok to anyone?

As far as I understand it what you're describing is the result of fairly complex interactions between tax laws in different jurisdictions that Apple is exploiting. It's not something that our govt can change simply by adjusting the corporation tax rate

FWIW I think it's embarrassing that FG/FF are so servile that they're fighting the EU judgment against Apple, but realistically them being on Apple's side is purely about signalling, and irrelevant to the real legal battle between Apple and the EU

It's pretty clear that governments so far have prioritised exchequer revenue over fairness in this area. I can understand why people might take issue with that, but I can understand how they would think they were acting in the country's best interest by prioritising in that way, and it's entirely possible they were right

 

[egg_]

I guess what I'm getting at is - we're all "low corporation tax is bullshit" and they're like "but having it this way means Ireland has more money".

If they're right, do we still want to change it?

 

[magicbastarder]

He A: wants to get the apple tax for houses and environments B: hates the insurance industry in its present form C: has said this week he wants finance in govt.

i was amazed he didn't laugh out loud at jim o'callaghan's comment that SF would turn ireland into venezuela. because we've done so well under FF.

 

[ann post]

Always think he sounds like he's giving a winning captain's speech after the all ireland.

Don't get my hopes up

 

[Lili Marlene]

As far as I understand it what you're describing is the result of fairly complex interactions between tax laws in different jurisdictions that Apple is exploiting. It's not something that our govt can change simply by adjusting the corporation tax rate

Not by simply adjusting the corporation tax no, hell if they were actually paying that amount it wouldn't be nearly as bad, but it's not like they the government is powerless to close its own loopholes.

FWIW I think it's embarrassing that FG/FF are so servile that they're fighting the EU judgment against Apple, but realistically them being on Apple's side is purely about signalling, and irrelevant to the real legal battle between Apple and the EU

It's pretty clear that governments so far have prioritised exchequer revenue over fairness in this area. I can understand why people might take issue with that, but I can understand how they would think they were acting in the country's best interest by prioritising in that way, and it's entirely possible they were right

It'd be interesting what the ministers who started this tax situation back in 1988 or so (IIRC) would think of our current situation. It's been often pointed out that Ireland went straight from agricultural to high-technology and finance, fairly skipping an industrial revolution in there.

I have no idea what we would look like if this didn't happen but from my perspective I'm seeing a highly atomised society with ever-increasing social isolation, endless amounts of people either stuck in bullshit jobs they see no real point of or, even worse, jobs in the service sector for pittance wages - the reward for all this being a lot of high-tech products, complete dependence on the whims of silicon valley, and an unlivable rent situation. There might have been a balance to be found at one point but it's well gone.

 

[egg_]

Not by simply adjusting the corporation tax no, hell if they were actually paying that amount it wouldn't be nearly as bad, but it's not like they the government is powerless to close its own loopholes.

Ay, that's true enough

... the reward for all this being a lot of high-tech products, complete dependence on the whims of silicon valley, and an unlivable rent situation

Ok, it sounds like you're answering "yes" to my question above. You want Ireland to stop being a tax haven, even if that means less revenue for the exchequer.

Is that a fair thing to say?

It also seems like you think there are social problems caused by us being a tax haven, and they might be made better if we stopped being one. Is that accurate too?

 

[ann post]

I genuinely think bringing any talk of someones appearance into your reaction to their politics is not on.

Spoiler: However

I keep seeing the green party leader and getting reminded of when you meet one of these aul lads who did a LOT of drugs, or is possibly doing them right now but is just really at ease with it. Like occasionally his arm will dart out or something and he'll very quickly look at it with complete wonder and then get right back on point

 

[Lili Marlene]

Ok, it sounds like you're answering "yes" to my question above. You want Ireland to stop being a tax haven, even if that means less revenue for the exchequer.

Is that a fair thing to say?

It also seems like you think there are social problems caused by us being a tax haven, and they might be made better if we stopped being one. Is that accurate too?

Yah. Worth a shot, I think this election shows a lot of people under 40 agree with this as well. Perhaps foolishly, but I doubt it, the planet isn't exactly managing full-on capitalism very well.

"Less revenue for the exchequer" isn't necessarily the case though, I don't accept it's as simple as that and I don't think globalism can or should be just turned off like that. We live in a world that's the richest its ever been, it's both hugely unequal and hugely interconnected. Plus if you're not taxing the companies that are here the exchequer isn't actually getting any revenue.

re: this or the next election, a left wing government can make changes without having to go full communism, all economies are mixed economies ultimately.

 

[ann post]

both hugely unequal and hugely interconnected.

I left some hippie stuff for you in the climate thread. Go read that and if you come back haven't transformed into gorden gecko at the mention of circle sticks then you can be in my medieval tech cult.

 

[Lili Marlene]

I left some hippie stuff for you in the climate thread. Go read that and if you come back haven't transformed into gorden gecko at the mention of circle sticks then you can be in my medieval tech cult.

We're all Irish here, we know that the local community is the devil and all our neighbours are utter pricks and we fucking hate them forever and we just want to be left the fuck alone.

However, that doesn't mean we couldn't form a good society.

and maybe.... maybe Rory down the road isn't so bad, I was just stressed that day. Like, I could handle being around him a bit, for the better of everyone. I don't want to fucking live in the same communal house as him but he's alright mostly I guess.

Have you read Ursula Leguin's The Dispossessed? Would recommend.

 

[ann post]

We're all Irish here, we know that the local community is the devil and all our neighbours are utter pricks and we fucking hate them forever and we just want to be left the fuck alone.

However, that doesn't mean we couldn't form a good society.

and maybe.... maybe Rory down the road isn't so bad, I was just stressed that day. Like, I could handle being around him a bit, for the better of everyone. I don't want to fucking live in the same communal house as him but he's alright mostly I guess.

Have you read Ursula Leguin's The Dispossessed? Would recommend.

Why is it 90eu though?

 

[Lili Marlene]

It absolutely is not.