Fight For Women's Right to Choose! (6 Viewers)

[socmot]

What a pointess cause! Surely the law at stands is something both side are reasonaby comfortable with. Why fuck with that.

I'm genuinely puzzled as to why you think the pro-choice side are happy with the current law. Would you mind telling me why?

As it stands, abortion is illegal except in X case type scenarios. If an Irish woman wants an abortion, she has to travel outside Ireland. This is completely unacceptable.

 

[Mormon Nailer]

I'm genuinely puzzled as to why you think the pro-choice side are happy with the current law. Would you mind telling me why?

As it stands, abortion is illegal except in X case type scenarios. If an Irish woman wants an abortion, she has to travel outside Ireland. This is completely unacceptable.

I suppose because a Ryanair flight to Stanstead is cheaper than the train to Dublin, so to say anyone is being denied a choice is wrong.

 

[RSJ]

Haha. Gas man.

 

[carbide]

Dude you may not be wrong in terms of a pro-babies mindset..... minds may not be changed. I'm gonna throw this shit out here.... but I'd say people said the same thing about divorce and contraception in the not too distant past (family is family, extra marital sex is extra marital sex etc).... they were all sanctified to a point. I don't know if any recent opinion polls have been done on this. I'm not to big on it.

i'd throw the decriminalisation of homosexuality and the possibility of civil partnerships being legalised into the comparison too - i don't have a background in legislation etc, but it does appear that there have been changes in legislation that are ahead* of popular opinion, and i wonder sometimes if that will apply too in the case of abortion. aside from the bigger bafflement of how late homosexuality was decriminalised, i sometimes wonder how there was ever change when homophobia still seems so goddamn ubiquitous.

actually, contraception, too.

and i am backing the fuck away from the thread, because (1) hey, my ignore list is mostly together for a big party!, and (2) nearly everyone posting on it has done this here before, and it's a near-constant exchange of firmly-held opinions (expressed with varying degress of success and suckitude) without dialogue.



* i am biased and optimistic.

 

[ITalkShite]

I suppose because a Ryanair flight to Stanstead is cheaper than the train to Dublin, so to say anyone is being denied a choice is wrong.

I think it was Albert Reynolds, before one of the abortion referenda, who privately said something along the lines that the Irish people had made up their minds to be hypocrites about abortion, and he had no desire to stand in their way, so he was going to let them have a referendum which essentially avoided any resolution of the issue.

 

[Shine]

I politely made my point once when some female Doctor from Cork spoke and I disagreed with something she said.
I would not say it was a wasted meeting as I had a nice sociable drink in the Foggy and then had a talk with Mazzianne.

you neglect to mention that you abortion-heckled me on my way through the pub bringing my little son and his friend to the toilet!

however, lest people think janer sucks forever, i will point out that he did apologise afterwards - but only to make peace cos now he knows who mazzianne is he wants to be friends ;-)

hey janer,theres a pro life rally on next saturday at one outside the g.p.o.

yup - and they're having mass, i'll post you details if you want

What a pointess cause!

please have a look at the choice ireland blogspot (bottom of page - plus link to whole article) to see the things we think need changing in ireland

Has there been any polling done on the issue in recent years just to see what the view of the nation as a whole is?

there was a mrbi poll done by safe and legal in ireland recently which showed increasing tolerance for abortion. details on their blogspot (about 5 stories down i think)
there's 70 and 80 percentages saying they agree with allowing abortion in cases of rape and severe foetal abnormality etc.
it's a bit less than 50/50 for abortion on demand... but like someone says - when the old people die... !
don't think this shows the breakdown for young people - but i know they have figures for showing young ppl to be much more pro-choice.

 

[oh shit]

I suppose because a Ryanair flight to Stanstead is cheaper than the train to Dublin, so to say anyone is being denied a choice is wrong.

you're either taking the piss or way out of your depth.
just in case anyone reading this was taking this guy seriously - go read up on how much it costs to get an abortion in england. try marie stopes, for example. then check hotel prices, for two people. how long does it take you to earn that amount? a week? how long would it take if you weren't working?
then try to imagine having to go something that is usually a very difficult and painful decision, in a foreign country, followed by a night in a cheap hotel with pretty serious cramps. that's the choice we're talking about.

 

[Janer]

you neglect to mention that you abortion-heckled me on my way through the pub bringing my little son and his friend to the toilet!

1) I was wrong and I said so..was aimed at my partner I just speak to loud.
O

however, lest people think janer sucks forever, i will point out that he did apologise afterwards - but only to make peace cos now he knows who mazzianne is he wants to be friends ;-)

2) Mazzianne and I have never got on b4......I have just decided that there is no point running round in circles so......
Like I said yesterday I made my point and everyone knows my opinion.


I did wonder how you knew my name

 

[Mormon Nailer]

you're either taking the piss or way out of your depth.

Does it reassure you to think that?

 

[egg_]

you're either taking the piss or way out of your depth.

Neither, says I. As far as I can see the boat-to-England option is what the majority of Irish voters are most comfortable with.

 

[RSJ]

Neither, says I. As far as I can see the boat-to-England option is what the majority of Irish voters are most comfortable with.

No, he was saying it in the context of:

What a pointess cause! Surely the law at stands is something both side are reasonaby comfortable with. Why fuck with that.

Which implies that women who need an abortion are perfectly happy with travelling to a foreign country to get an abortion and all that entails (see oh shit's post). If you honestly believe that, you're an idiot (note: not directed at egg).

 

[ITalkShite]

Neither, says I. As far as I can see the boat-to-England option is what the majority of Irish voters are most comfortable with.

Just because they're "most comfortable with" it (or "willing to put up with" it) doesn't mean it's not hypocritical, doesn't mean it's not unfair, doesn't mean it's not stupid. The people it affects most are those with the least power and quietest political voice. Should the situation stay the same out of sheer hypocritical inertia? You could argue that, yes, in practical terms it should. But certainly not in absolute, moral terms, which is what the law is ultimnately intended to be.

But before even getting to the stage of considering those takes on the whole thing, the Oireachteas is (still!) required to legislate for the Supreme Court's decision in 1992 about the 'X' case. That requires the availability of abortion for pregnant women who are at significant risk of suicide as a result of their situation.

 

[egg_]

Just because they're "most comfortable with" it (or "willing to put up with" it) doesn't mean it's not hypocritical, doesn't mean it's not unfair, doesn't mean it's not stupid.

Oh absolutely. But that's the society that we live in. I don't want to get drawn into this debate, particularly, I was just countering oh shit's assertion that Mormon Nailer is out of his depth.

But certainly not in absolute, moral terms, which is what the law is ultimnately intended to be.

Don't think so. There is no absolute right and wrong dude. The law is just a set of rules that we made up so as to make it easier for us to live together

 

[Mormon Nailer]

Just because they're "most comfortable with" it (or "willing to put up with" it) doesn't mean it's not hypocritical, doesn't mean it's not unfair, doesn't mean it's not stupid.

Nothing in the least hypocritical about it. It's a pretty strightforward and logical position. The majority of the people in this country opposed the legalisation of abortion. They also oppose holding people prisoner in the country.

Should we leagalise drugs here because people can go to Amsterdam for a smoke?

The fact that you don't like it doesn't automatically make it hypocracy.

The people it affects most are those with the least power and quietest political voice.

Do you mean foetuses here? Surely not?

 

[Mormon Nailer]

Inanyways buh, lil' point- Ireland tends to take a while to come round to things. It took quite a while to get contraception legalised (1979), suicide decriminalised (early 90's) and divorce legalised (mid 90s). A plethora of other controversial legislation founded on catholic morality to do with families/drugs/sex etc has been reformed in the last 20 years on issues that seemed like they were set in stone. I have absolute faith that through the work of pro-choice organisations (and all of those who support women, their rights, equality, human rights and all the other awesome things that anti-abortion legislation refutes) the legislation will be changed in the not-too distant future.

*Je m'appelle pollyanna wimp-face ttm.

I'll just tackle a point here and call it quits. Not much point beating this subject to death (again).

Pretty much none of you will agree with me on this but anyway....

There has been a few posts about how the precess of legalisation is inevitiable. That there will be a point in the future when not having abortion freely available will appear as quaint as not having divorce or no condoms and as grotesque as kiddy fiddler curtates and magdalin laundries. And there is a belief that all of these are just the last remnants of our Catholic past working itself out.

That might be true about divorce and contraception and such like but abortion is different. There is never going to be a time when there are not people like Janer who are deeply, deeply opposed it. And that opposition comes from all corners of society -not just the Legion of Mary. There is nothing backward or illogical about the view that a foutus is human and deserves protection. No mater how much some people here disagree with the belief.

If people here think all that is needed is time, meetings and pamhlets then they are crazy.

 

[broken arm]

If people here think all that is needed is time, meetings and pamhlets then they are crazy.

i agree with this last point. nothing else though.

 

[Mormon Nailer]

i agree with this last point. nothing else though.

I can't be right the whole time!

 

[Denny Oubidoux]

I'll just tackle a point here and call it quits. Not much point beating this subject to death (again).

Pretty much none of you will agree with me on this but anyway....

There has been a few posts about how the precess of legalisation is inevitiable. That there will be a point in the future when not having abortion freely available will appear as quaint as not having divorce or no condoms and as grotesque as kiddy fiddler curtates and magdalin laundries. And there is a belief that all of these are just the last remnants of our Catholic past working itself out.

That might be true about divorce and contraception and such like but abortion is different. There is never going to be a time when there are not people like Janer who are deeply, deeply opposed it. And that opposition comes from all corners of society -not just the Legion of Mary. There is nothing backward or illogical about the view that a foutus is human and deserves protection. No mater how much some people here disagree with the belief.

If people here think all that is needed is time, meetings and pamhlets then they are crazy.

at last! a voice of reason...

 

[RSJ]

Should we leagalise drugs here because people can go to Amsterdam for a smoke?

Wow!

 

[Mormon Nailer]

Wow!

hmmmm.