Vinyl (5 Viewers)

[egg_]

There is a loss of quality from one analogue form to another. But you are still just moving a alternating signal - the information is still a wave

It's not a "loss of quality", it's a transformation of the input signal - there are phase changes, there is distortion added (which amounts to adding higher frequency harmonics to the the original wave), some frequencies are attentuated and some are amplified. That the information is "still a wave" is irrelevant - the wave on your record is very different from the waves in the air in the recording room, and CD or vinyl it's a wave when it hits your ears anyway.

Digital doesnt sound "better". It sounds cleaner. This cleanliness comes at the expense of accuracy, as with a digital signal the information available is finite.

"Accuracy" has nothing to do with it, dude. In the pro-audio world, digital is the medium of choice for recording, and when people do choose tape over digital it's not because it's more accurate, but because they prefer the sound of the inaccuracy of tape to the sound of the inaccuracy of digital. Really. You're hung up on theoretical considerations that are irrelevant.

 

[Wilbert]

I never said I'd never LISTEN to a CD. I said I've never bought one.
And by rip I mean download in any case.

Now I am confused. See.
Why wouldn't you buy one?

 

[GARYXKNIFEDX]

The only times I buy cd's are when they are cheap/used. Only on rare occasions would I buy a full price cd. I've severely cut down on buying cd's since moving to dublin.
I never look through cd sections in shops either,sometimes I'll look at the first couple and then wonder what I'm doing.
For the most part,I don't think most people could tell the difference in sound quality of any format. Certainly in the conditions they'd be listening to them. I still think vinyl is the most suitable format for the music I listen to though.

 

[Jerry Twig]

Now I am confused. See.
Why wouldn't you buy one?

Because i BUY VINYL, because I prefer it (and because I have a KICK ASS turntable and sound system). I think CD's are disposable and cheap and nasty.
Much the same as Minidiscs. I'd listen to one for convenience but I wouldn;t be inclined to fork out 15 quid for one.
Would you?

 

[Jerry Twig]

I never look through cd sections in shops either,sometimes I'll look at the first couple and then wonder what I'm doing.

haha. snap

 

[Anthony]

If something's fairly rockin but doesn;t come out on vinyl I'm afraid I just rip it.
That's the truth.

Post of the year.

 

[aoboa]

Oh great - another digital vs analogue debate.

 

[RED(tape)MENACE]

Oh man, digilogue is much better than both of those.

 

[egg_]

Sorry I couldn't help but get sucked in
Mormon Nailer - the digital vs analogue debate was settled years ago.

 

[snakybus]

As someone said a while back - most music is recorded digitally anyway these days, so that debate is somewhat redundant. Yo La Tengo record on tape, don't they? And some others. But not too many. And even a lot of old records get digitally remastered.

One thing I'm trying to decipher is whether records do sound better on vinyl or not. So far, there have been some people in the "yea" camp and some in the "nay" camp.

Most advocates of vinyl, however, seem to have touchy-feely reasons (which I'm not knocking - I say these are good reasons) for liking it rather than audio reasons. See, all the first records I got into I listened to on old cassettes on a little tape recorder/radio. We were skint, we didn't have a working record player. I'm not precious about format. And I'm not really into accumulating a collection - of anything.

However, I'm interested in why people are precious about the format, because it just won't go away, like whatever, VHS or 8-track tapes have. But mainly I'm trying to figure out if CD is on the way out - I have a hunch that it just might be, but perhaps not for a few years.

 

[Wilbert]

Because i BUY VINYL, because I prefer it (and because I have a KICK ASS turntable and sound system). I think CD's are disposable and cheap and nasty.
Much the same as Minidiscs. I'd listen to one for convenience but I wouldn;t be inclined to fork out 15 quid for one.
Would you?

I do buy CDs. I don't own a turntable so there isn't much alternative.
Personally, I cannot hear a difference between the two.
Vinyl, in my opinion, is a medium that degrades over time and there is no way I'll be convinced that a vinyl lp thats been played 100 times sounds better than its CD equivalent.

People talk about loss of information between analogue and digital conversion but they are talking about frequencies that no human can hear. We're not talking about getting a CD and saying "I thought there were drums on this?!?! Stupid analogue to digital conversion!".

If your hearing is so good that you can hear a difference between the two then you need to contact the government as this superpower could surely serve your country in some way!

 

[Mormon Nailer]

"Accuracy" has nothing to do with it, dude. In the pro-audio world, digital is the medium of choice for recording, and when people do choose tape over digital it's not because it's more accurate, but because they prefer the sound of the inaccuracy of tape to the sound of the inaccuracy of digital. Really. You're hung up on theoretical considerations that are irrelevant.

I understand what you're saying and I dont want to come accross like some demented vinyl zealot (which would be odd as I havent bought vinyl in a while!), but...

The way is see it in analogue erroneous data is added to the signal - hiss, surface noise etc. This is different from where in digital data is irretrievably lost.

The thing you are glossing over is that an analogue signal is sampled and the resultant quality of the digital reproduction of that signal is dependant on the sampling rate used.

These may be theoretical considerations and more to do with DSP science than sound engineering however the fact remains sometimes the vinyl version of an album will grab you by the balls in the way the cd version can't. Why is that? I could be something to do with the mix and all these theorethical consideratins could be irrelevant, but I don't think so.

 

[SONYMEGADRIVE]

However, I'm interested in why people are precious about the format,

i don't think i'm preciuos about it, i just prefer it and don't feel as inclined to buy cds

also second hand cd shopping doesn't have any of the appeal of second hand record shopping - "oh man i scored a cd reissue from 1994" vs "wow - first budgie lp!" - i genuinely perk up when i see a box of records. a pile of crusty cds just doesn't do that.

 

[SONYMEGADRIVE]

and there is no way I'll be convinced that a vinyl lp thats been played 100 times sounds better than its CD equivalent.

have you considered that age/surface noise might actually enhance the listening experience?
aoife has this ol tymee dance with the devil record, dunno when it's from but it's old. it wouldn't be as interesting as an artifact if it was on cd.
like wise - mp3 of the monster mash vs monster mash 7"...i know which one i'm listenin to...

that sounds gay

 

[Jerry Twig]

Wilbert,
Hey,
There is no point in aiming that stuff at me! I never said that you shouldn't buy CDs. I just think they are CRAP myself and would feel stupid wasting my money on them.
It all sounds good to me - CD/vinyl whatever. The quality depends on your sound system. And records play fine after 100 listens if you look after them. Ditto CDs.
What I personally like about vinyl is the bulk, the 12" artwork and the gatefold sleeves, the colour vinyl, the stacked library of music, and the ritualistic act of putting the needle on the record.
All told, I just personally think that CDs are bollocks, especially when one of the plastic hinges that holds on the plastic cover snaps off, hahaha!!! It's not about the sound for me, it's the format.

 

[snakybus]

Hey Andy, Monster Mash was the very first record I owned

I'm not messing.

And it was on vinyl!

(that was before our record player broke when I was about 6 or 7)

 

[Buzzo]

I love vinyl for the following reasons-

I LOVE record shopping. I love flicking through records instead of gazing over cd spines. I love being unexpectedly confronted with a record I've been after for a long time or didn't even know I was after (you can order most shit on CD from Tower right?).

I used to DJ electro/electronica so it was practical at one time.

I love the physical effort involved in putting on a record. You're engaged with the music and the listening to it

What the muncher said about old records and how it can ad to the feeling (old bally pillowcases and socks are often nicer than crisp clean new ones)

I love the way our records look all stacked up in the house. I love the great big covers and the fact that they don't snap. I love the fact that records don't end up in a record wallet left behind on a train.

I still buy cds sometimes. I just prefer records.

 

[egg_]

The way is see it in analogue erroneous data is added to the signal - hiss, surface noise etc. This is different from where in digital data is irretrievably lost.

That's where you're wrong. Each piece of equipment in the recording and reproduction chain changes the signal. There's way more to it than just adding noise

The thing you are glossing over is that an analogue signal is sampled and the resultant quality of the digital reproduction of that signal is dependant on the sampling rate used.

I'm not glossing over it, "quality" of reproduction depends on a lot more than the sample rate - bit depth, for instance, and the design of the filter that rolls off high frequencies before the signal hits the a/d convertors.

sometimes the vinyl version of an album will grab you by the balls in the way the cd version can't. Why is that? I could be something to do with the mix and all these theorethical consideratins could be irrelevant, but I don't think so.

Seriously dude, go and look this up somewhere like prosoundweb.com - you're approaching the digital vs analogue debate from a very simplistic perspective. All recording methods are approximations, and the "lost information" thing is a red herring

 

[egg_]

See, all the first records I got into I listened to on old cassettes on a little tape recorder/radio. We were skint, we didn't have a working record player. I'm not precious about format. And I'm not really into accumulating a collection - of anything.

Haha, snap!
I have fuck all money anyway these days to buy records or CDs, and our modestly kickass stereo seldom gets a workout with a baby in the house

 

[SONYMEGADRIVE]

sounds liek your problem is with being middle aged
not records