Six Nations 2014 (1 Viewer)

[washingcattle]

it's a truism that the introduction of money to a sport increases the propensity and rewards for cheating, it's the whingeing to the ref and the diving that i can't stomach.

is it better to cheat to win or to cheat to lose? i can't recall the latter in rugby.

Cheating to lose ? You mean match fixing ? When you're talking about football you're talking about a multi trillion dollar international industry, in any industry that size you'll find saboteurs just wait until Rugby gets to that level and then remember this thread when The Sun tapes a place kicker taking a bribe to miss penalties. It's probably already happening, it's probably already happening as we speak.

Football reflects the world, the whole ugly, racist, ignorant, petty unjust money hungry selfish world and everything in it. That's why you get quotes like Albert Camus

'"Everything I know about morality and the obligations of men, I owe it to football"

Rugby has always been a sport which attempts to remain a bastion of integrity while at the same time to many it represents the worst aspects of the elitism that's inherent in society. It's hypocracy in that regard has always been staggering.

This is the same debate I've been having for years

"In rugby we don't surround the ref or try to blatantly cheat by faking an injury

What about the fake blood ?

Yeah but he got banned for 4 months

Ah.. the niavity, the illusion of "justice" being served and now the game remains pure. It's the thin edge of the wedge my friend.

No....eh .... Rugby's not like football because it's a thugs game played by gentlemen .... etc"

and on the rhetoric goes



As soon as it became professional, it opened itself up to the same grubby individualistic self interest and pettiness which is inherent in any capitalist pursuit.



Football is the world we live in. A utopia of injustice and hypocracy where the best team rarely wins, a third world country wins the top prize half the time, a man is a commodity which a corporations can own for life, And the only winners is whoever sits on the biggest pile of cash at the end of the day. And we love it because we know all of this and we just don't care because life isn't fair. Why should we pretend it is and expect football to reflect a pretence in anyway other than pretence ?

Listening to Rugby supporters is like having a conversation through a time machine with some plebeian back in some bygone era where kings were anointed by god and all was fair in love and war, virginal and noble.

Fuck that, you took the money so it's over, now come play in the mud with the rest of us.

 

[Mormon Nailer]

You have to be from the "privileged classes" to either play or support it.

Don't believe me

Notice anything ?

Former French colonies weren't big on rugby?

 

[washingcattle]

Former French colonies weren't big on rugby?

Certain French citizens weren't in a position to attend the colleges and schools where rugby is played ?

 

[Mormon Nailer]

Certain French citizens weren't in a position to attend the colleges and schools where rugby is played ?

You're applying a particular set of prejudices based on Dublin, that don't even apply in the rest of the country (there are 8 senior clubs in Limerick - and no elite rugby schools) and definitely don't apply in the South of France where Rugby is the most popular sport.

 

[washingcattle]

You're applying a particular set of prejudices based on Dublin, that don't even apply in the rest of the country (there are 8 senior clubs in Limerick - and no elite rugby schools) and definitely don't apply in the South of France where Rugby is the most popular sport.

Except in Marsailles for some reason. Hmmmm ?

 

[Mormon Nailer]

If Marsaiilles has a large immigrant population from areas that are soccer not rugby wouldn't it stand to reason that rugby is less popular there?

 

[Cormcolash]

 

[Unknown Convict]

Certain French citizens weren't in a position to attend the colleges and schools where rugby is played ?

another thing professionalism has done for rugby is democratise the access to the sport, for better and worse (see: e.g. Riki Flutey). your notions of elitism are a hackneyed throwback to an age most rugby supporters wouldn't recognise. even a cursory look at the french team yesterday would back that up. e.g. gael fickou.

it's a moot point whether the mercenary traits effected by professionalism are better or worse than the elitism of old.

 

[Jerry Twig]

You're applying a particular set of prejudices based on Dublin, that don't even apply in the rest of the country (there are 8 senior clubs in Limerick - and no elite rugby schools) .

You're applying a particular set of prejudices based on Limerick, that don't even apply in the rest of the country (Limerick is not Ireland and Dublin is more reflective of the rest of the country)

 

[Jerry Twig]

and it's a load of shite inanyways

 

[washingcattle]

If Marsaiilles has a large immigrant population from areas that are soccer not rugby wouldn't it stand to reason that rugby is less popular there?

Kinda proving my point for me no ?

another thing professionalism has done for rugby is democratise the access to the sport, for better and worse (see: e.g. Riki Flutey). your notions of elitism are a hackneyed throwback to an age most rugby supporters wouldn't recognise. even a cursory look at the french team yesterday would back that up. e.g. gael fickou.

it's a moot point whether the mercenary traits effected by professionalism are better or worse than the elitism of old.

Really ?

You're right looks like it's a complete turnaround there alright.

There's no fucking way your argument stands up, just because you're in your twenties and want to believe some bullshit we are the world nonsense to feel more PC about everything doesn't change the history of the sport. It's an elitist pile of piss which nobody in Ireland outside of D4 and a patch of munster would give two fucks about if we didn't win occasionally.

You're worse than Chelski supporters.

 

[Unknown Convict]

i'm old enough to have lived through "the history of the sport" and remember the bad old days of 3-all draws in the mud, the sheepskins, the clubbiness, when the game was almost incidental. judging today's rugby on some outdated preconceptions is akin to saying all soccer fans are banana-throwing national front nutters.

for what it's worth, i take my 5y.o. son to rugby at the local club every sunday morning. the only barrier to entry is €100 for the year; no "where is he in school?". his 'team' is coached by volunteers, rain or shine, and is made up of both boys and girls. nothing unique but hardly elitist.

 

[washingcattle]

judging today's rugby on some outdated preconceptions is akin to saying all soccer fans are banana-throwing national front nutters.

RUGBY FANS RAM BULLSHIT LIKE THAT DOWN OUR FUCKING THROATS EVERY FUCKING TIME THEY OPEN THEIR FUCKING MOUTHS, THAT'S WHY WE FUCKING HATE YOU AND YOU'RE FUCKING SHIT SPORT.

and I'm not drawing on preconceptions, you've disproved none of what I've said and your sport is still fucking shite.

 

[ann post]

judging

THERE YOU GO JUDGING AGAIN. LIFETIME BAN.

 

[Jerry Twig]

i'm old enough to have lived through "the history of the sport" and remember the bad old days of 3-all draws in the mud, the sheepskins, the clubbiness, when the game was almost incidental. judging today's rugby on some outdated preconceptions is akin to saying all soccer fans are banana-throwing national front nutters.

for what it's worth, i take my 5y.o. son to rugby at the local club every sunday morning. the only barrier to entry is €100 for the year; no "where is he in school?". his 'team' is coached by volunteers, rain or shine, and is made up of both boys and girls. nothing unique but hardly elitist.

I've nothing against Protestants, personally.

 

[Cormcolash]

RUGBY FANS RAM BULLSHIT LIKE THAT DOWN OUR FUCKING THROATS EVERY FUCKING TIME THEY OPEN THEIR FUCKING MOUTHS, THAT'S WHY WE FUCKING HATE YOU AND YOU'RE FUCKING SHIT SPORT.

and I'm not drawing on preconceptions, you've disproved none of what I've said and your sport is still fucking shite.

'Your'

 

[rettucs]

You're applying a particular set of prejudices based on Dublin, that don't even apply in the rest of the country (there are 8 senior clubs in Limerick - and no elite rugby schools) and definitely don't apply in the South of France where Rugby is the most popular sport.

it kind of applies worldwide (in a rugby context), no? Pretty much only countries that were ruled/colonised by the Brits are any use/take rugby seriously (france aside perchaps)

In recent years to try and give it some modicum of credibility encouragement has been offered to non-traditional rugby playing nations such as Georgia, Japan, Namibia, by flooding them with mercenary journeymen from southern hemisphere nations who weren't 'quite good enough' to play for their own countries. And they make up the numbers in a competition referred to as the 'world cup', which really is not reflective of the world at all, lets be honest.

Rugby as a game is fine and all. Like, its not my bag. I have no interest in watching it nor do I imagine will I ever have. But I appreciate for many people who like to involve themselves in the sport at 'grass-roots' level, there is a further depth to the sport than the majority of people who claim they like rugby (for the 2/3 months of the year that its forced down our throats by the media).

Thats my problem with it. This forcing it down our throats. This making things out to be some kind of phenomenal achievement to win a 6-nations match, when really all they've done is beaten a load of lads from another country. Compare and contrast the reaction to a victory by the Irish soccer team to a victory by the Irish rugby team. No comparison.

And the reaction of the so-called rugby fans (bandwagoners, if you like). To me it represents all the bad shit about this country in the last 15 years. It gives pricks some kind of outlet to show how high-flying they are in society. I know people who go to rugby matches who fucking dress up in their finest fucking clobber cos, y'know, they need to be seen as being respectable and up-standing, on the off-chance someone they know should meet them.

And the schools thing. I actually don't have a huge problem with that, other than the media coverage the games get. I mean, the kids that go to those schools and who play rugby there, fair fucks to them and all. At least they're not out mugging grannies or robbing cars. They're in the school, probably because of some family tradition that has them there, so its not like they had any hand nor part in it.

Its the alumni thing that grinds my gears though. I used to see it in a couple of previous jobs I had where we shared buildings with financial institutions. And I knew lads working in those places. And if the bigwigs there were from Blackrock or Marys, then you wouldn't get anywhere in the company lest you, too were from B'rock or Marys.

To summarise, rugby is grand. Its not for me. Its the pricks that like it for 3-months a year that ruin it. And I'm obtuse as fuck I know, but I just can't get past that..

 

[Unknown Convict]

RUGBY FANS RAM BULLSHIT LIKE THAT DOWN OUR FUCKING THROATS EVERY FUCKING TIME THEY OPEN THEIR FUCKING MOUTHS, THAT'S WHY WE FUCKING HATE YOU AND YOU'RE FUCKING SHIT SPORT.

and I'm not drawing on preconceptions, you've disproved none of what I've said and your sport is still fucking shite.

when i called bigotry upthread, i meant yours.

your preconceptions of the modern game are entirely rooted in a cliched, jaundiced, historical view which has nothing to do with how rugby is coached, played or supported anymore and seems to be based on some trite caricature rather than any exposure to the game as it's currently constructed.

how have you enjoyed the two games you've watched so far?

 

[Squiggle]

Sean O'Brien is from my hometown, and went to the same school I did. A school where Gaelic games, soccer and basketball were heavily pushed, but without a rugby team. He played for Tullow RFC and then played in University. Not from Dublin, not from a "privileged" background, went to a Community School and certainly not up his own backside.

Gaelic associations are pretty bigoted and cliquey in my experience, and some soccer players seem to think that the normal laws of society don't or shouldn't apply to them - but you get dicks that in pretty much any walk of life.

Rugby is a great game, physical, fast and requiring lots of skill and stamina. It is also a game that can be played by people of all shapes and sizes, with a position to fit nearly every physique, so actually far less exclusionist than most team sports.

And we're good at it, and in spite of the fact that it's way down there on the list of National Sports and played by a minority we're often better at it than the country that invented it, and where it's played in nearly every school. And our Women's team is kicking everyone's butt these days.

What really pisses me off is when people who won't get behind Irish people playing rugby (because it's not IRISH/Gaelic/mainstream or whatever the fuck excuse they come up with in their petty bigoted little minds) will do so for our Soccer team (another foreign sport) who are mostly British born and bred, and support British Premiership teams, spending fortunes on kit to line the pockets of wealthy investors and overpaid ballerinas with God complexes.

 

[Squiggle]

And as to the claim that for 2-3 months of the year rugby is "forced down our throats" - seriously? I don't like soccer, can I ask for the unending coverage of it in the News and all the programming that centers on English and Scottish (not even Irish FFS) soccer to be taken off air so it no longer offends me. And you obviously missed the coverage of the Southern Hemisphere tour, and the Lions Tour, and the Rugby World Cup. It's not all the Six Nations.

And countries that weren't colonised by England/Britain who play competitive rugby should also include Italy and Argentina at a minimum.