Referendums 24, a woman's place is wherever she wants it to be? (1 Viewer)

[Deadmanposting]

Well, if a genie got elected Taoiseach then under the constitution he could decide that whatever salary a woman with kids made would be taxed at 100% in order to pay a carer to mind her kids while she was at work. That way women would be free to choose between the home and a career without any financial implications, hooray!

So maybe it is a good idea to change the wording, just in case

The genie argument is the first compelling one that I have heard so far

Flew into Finland last week, and watched a doco on the plane about how they run their society. Good God but they are streets ahead of us.
Like a kebab is €16, so they do pay for it with taxes. But holy heck, it's a better society.

 

[nuke terrorist]

Don't get married or have kids and everything will be grand.

 

[pete]

"The State shall, therefore, endeavour to ensure that mothers shall not be obliged by economic necessity to engage in labour to the neglect of their duties in the home"

am i the only one seeing the problem with this?

 

[rettucs]

The genie argument is the first compelling one that I have heard so far

Flew into Finland last week, and watched a doco on the plane about how they run their society. Good God but they are streets ahead of us.
Like a kebab is €16, so they do pay for it with taxes. But holy heck, it's a better society.

tourists always get screwed by Finland's tax system. Its swings and roundabouts. There is little or no tax in some areas, but loads in others. For example, there is no motor tax and no tolls on the roads, but fuel is shit expensive. As a tourist you don't get the benefit of the no car tax but still have to pay the exorbitant fuel costs.

It is a great country. I've never been so taken by a place after only visiting it for a few days.

 

[magicbastarder]

it's the country where you want to be?

 

[rettucs]

it's the country where you want to be?

I'm not moving there, no.

but if I was moving anywhere it would likely be there.

 

[magicbastarder]

that was a monty python reference.

 

[Deadmanposting]

This is from 10 days ago, where Brendan had a representative from each side on

Referendums on Family and Care

Author Katriona O Sullivan on why she’s voting yes in the referendums next month

www.rte.ie

Referendums on Family and Care

Writer and commentator Maria Steen on why she’s voting no to both of the upcoming referendums

www.rte.ie

Although her experiences was very real, the UCD professor lady seemed very upset about how society viewed her family.
The other lady was much more clipped and pushing back about the value of motherhood and the traditional family.
Any advantage on performance/argument would likely be lost in what the listener brought to the interviews.

I personally thought the whole conversation moved around in circles, without either of them really getting across how things would change/would be lost with a vote either way.
Still worth a listen. They make more sense than the pamphlets.


There was an urgency on divorce and marriage equality. I am not getting that here.
It will probably all come down to how people feel about motherhood. And how that drives turnout.

 

[egg_]

Maria Steen on the two referendums ... while the traditionalist tone of this whole thing puts me off a bit, the content is not necessarily objectionable

Like this isn't necessarily true in my immediate social circle

the reality is that the majority of families are still headed by one man and one woman, and in the vast majority of cases it is the woman who takes the lead when it comes to running the house, making a home, and taking care of children and their needs

... but I expect it is true, as she says, for the majority of Irish familes.

 

[Deadmanposting]

Maria Steen on the two referendums ... while the traditionalist tone of this whole thing puts me off a bit, the content is not necessarily objectionable

Like this isn't necessarily true in my immediate social circle

... but I expect it is true, as she says, for the majority of Irish familes.

Oh this is your wan!
Didn't know she was Iona. BOC never said. Sneaky enough there.

There is a kind of circular illogic in us all acknowledging that generally women do most of the rearing, caring and nurturing in a family with the kids, and then to have acknowledgement of this pulled from the constitution.
She's really pushing that children's shoe size thing.

 

[pete]

Labour calls for yes votes in upcoming referendums

Labour has officially launched its family and care referendums campaign with party leader Ivana Bacik saying it is campaigning for a yes-yes vote.

www.rte.ie

 

[MacDara]

Labour calls for yes votes in upcoming referendums

Labour has officially launched its family and care referendums campaign with party leader Ivana Bacik saying it is campaigning for a yes-yes vote.

www.rte.ie

They’re putting into words more or less what I said I felt about it before.

 

[MacDara]

They’re putting into words more or less what I said I felt about it before.

The thing is, is a ’No’ vote here considered an endorsement of the existing text? Or a message to go back to the drawing board? I fear the former (as in, it will just be accepted as that and never again revisited) and I have a problem with that.

 

[pete]

yeah my concern is that anything other than a yes/yes result will be seen as a victory for the Iona types

 

[rettucs]

Breda is voting No

so I'm voting yes.

Breda O'Brien: I’m voting No because I will not be hypocritical about marriage

Advocating for marriage or even stable, two-parent families is seen as mean-spirited, judgmental and meddlesome, but ignoring the evidence helps no-one

www.irishtimes.com

 

[nuke terrorist]

'Family values' are the problem.
Conformist, restrictive nonsense that debases everyone.

Hope this passes as a bit of karma towards Mattie McGrath types.

 

[ann post]

Today i saw

SF: Yes/Yes with reservations
PBP: Yes/Yes with reservations
Aontu: Looks like no, slogans are in circulation.

 

[ann post]

MEANWHILE

Curious ann here

So Aontú's line of approach is all about removing the only mention of mothers in the constitution which is making for good online idiot slogan sharing bait so far.

I had to look.

The only mention of fathers in the constitution is the prayer bit where it thanks Jesus for Ireland.

 

[ann post]

 

[Deadmanposting]

Am I right that the 41.2 articles are about homemaking and motherhood, and that there is some attempt at a broader definition, which is 'striving' to include for caregivers in the home?
Which modern interpretation would include people with special needs, aged people etc.
So we kick out this archaic language on women, and we replace it with wording that promises basically nothing?

“The State recognises that the provision of care, by members of a family to one another by reason of the bonds that exist among them, gives to Society a support without which the common good cannot be achieved, and shall strive to support such provision.”

How could any judge rule on that provision? Never mind 'striving', sure support could mean a tenner a week. It could mean your children's allowance. It could mean attaboys.
There's an attempt to cover everyone, and they're really covering no one. I think.



But if this is really about just poking the eye of holy Ireland then have at it, I suppose.