Minor complaints thread (40 Viewers)

[Denny Oubidoux]

Who actually likes parades? Are they not a bit pointless and useless?

 

[Lili Marlene]

Who's co-opting?

Edit: I missed the St. Vincent / Dua Lipa reference. I don't get how a lesbian doing a performance that's focused on women being sexual with eachother is co-opting, but am I missing an element? I haven't actually watched the full thing to be fair.

I have but that's what I'm mostly ashamed about. We shoudn't be watching the Grammys FFS.

Who actually likes parades? Are they not a bit pointless and useless?

I enjoy the parade somewhat, it could be better but I don't want to get rid of it. A month of tourism Ireland is ludicrous though.

 

[_Katie_]

Who's co-opting?

Edit: I missed the St. Vincent / Dua Lipa reference. I don't get how a lesbian doing a performance that's focused on women being sexual with eachother is co-opting, but am I missing an element? I haven't actually watched the full thing to be fair.

I'm not entirely settled on it myself - and TBH I haven't watched it either so I shouldn't react off the bat, I'm going on pictures and a Rolling Stone piece I read but I'm not entirely sure its the right platform for it... I have a suspicion it was very choreographed with intention similar to the Madonna/Britney kiss. It feels a bit like the "correct" way to be gay/bi/queer, in a way that's edgy, controversial and pleasurable to men and the male gaze. It just rubbed me up the wrong way. Maybe I'm WAY off the mark, here! I think I would prefer to see a bi/lesbian couple just "being" at the Grammys rather than a big, wild sexual performance. Confused thoughts.

Perhaps others find it empowering/hot, which is totally valid! As far as I know St. Vincent is a lesbian and Dua Lipa is bisexual, am I right? Not sure what to think.

Edit: Obviously Madge/Britney is different b/c I believe they are both straight women? Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[_Katie_]

Who actually likes parades? Are they not a bit pointless and useless?

I like parades!

 

[Lili Marlene]

I'm not entirely settled on it myself - and TBH I haven't watched it either so I shouldn't react off the bat, I'm going on pictures and a Rolling Stone piece I read but I'm not entirely sure its the right platform for it... I have a suspicion it was very choreographed with intention similar to the Madonna/Britney kiss. It feels a bit like the "correct" way to be gay/bi/queer, in a way that's edgy, controversial and pleasurable to men and the male gaze. It just rubbed me up the wrong way. Maybe I'm WAY off the mark, here! I think I would prefer to see a bi/lesbian couple just "being" at the Grammys rather than a big, wild sexual performance. Confused thoughts.

Perhaps others find it empowering/hot, which is totally valid! As far as I know St. Vincent is a lesbian and Dua Lipa is bisexual, am I right? Not sure what to think.

Not to be the ultimate killjoy but while there are people being murdered over their sexuality in this world that is not happening (directly) in corporate America who can very easily use the language of empowerment for their own ends. This should not be surprising to us, check out how the pride parade is pretty much the silicon valley tech parade these days.

I get the impression St. Vincent is leaning into the silliness of it all. Not saying she's off the hook but she's a musician first, right? I suppose if you were invited to play the Grammys you'd do it for the laugh, why not.

 

[GARYXKNIFEDX]

Fuck parades

 

[_Katie_]

Not to be the ultimate killjoy but while there are people being murdered over their sexuality in this world that is not happening (directly) in corporate America who can very easily use the language of empowerment for their own ends. This should not be surprising to us, check out how the pride parade is pretty much the silicon valley tech parade these days.

I get the impression St. Vincent is leaning into the silliness of it all. Not saying she's off the hook but she's a musician first, right? I suppose if you were invited to play the Grammys you'd do it for the laugh, why not.

A good point! I suppose the performance was designed to get a reaction and make people think - and in a way its done that. I have mixed views! In one way I'm like "awesome, sexy, cool!" in another way I'm like... "white, rich women... ??" Not sure!

 

[Lili Marlene]

Let me mansplain some more.

 

[jonah]

I'm not entirely settled on it myself - and TBH I haven't watched it either so I shouldn't react off the bat, I'm going on pictures and a Rolling Stone piece I read but I'm not entirely sure its the right platform for it... I have a suspicion it was very choreographed with intention similar to the Madonna/Britney kiss. It feels a bit like the "correct" way to be gay/bi/queer, in a way that's edgy, controversial and pleasurable to men and the male gaze. It just rubbed me up the wrong way. Maybe I'm WAY off the mark, here! I think I would prefer to see a bi/lesbian couple just "being" at the Grammys rather than a big, wild sexual performance. Confused thoughts.

Perhaps others find it empowering/hot, which is totally valid! As far as I know St. Vincent is a lesbian and Dua Lipa is bisexual, am I right? Not sure what to think.

I disagree personally, but valid interpretation. I think queer women, specifically St. Vincent who has encorporated this into her work and performance, and visibile images of them representing themselves (as sexual, which is fine) is something to be celebrated. For sure, two gorgeous, thin, able bodied, white queer women together isn't exactly groundbreaking in terms of representation, and there's definitely a thing where this might not have the same response if they didn't both fit that MO, but I also don't think thats St. Vincent or Dua Lipa's fault, and as queer women they're allowed to represent themselves as sexual. I don't think they can be accused of co-opting. The only reactions I've seen, really, on twitter, are from gay and queer women basically being like "THIS IS THE THE BEST THING EVER, I AM SO HAPPY", which I can't be mad at.

The huge difference between Britney and Madonna is who is doing it, though right? Like, two straight women having a sexy kiss for the controversy and the lolz is just lame. But imho, an unapologetically sexual lesbian encorporating that into her work isnt the same thing.

 

[_Katie_]

I disagree personally, but valid interpretation. I think queer women, specifically St. Vincent who has encorporated this into her work and performance, and visibile images of them representing themselves (as sexual, which is fine) is something to be celebrated. For sure, two gorgeous, thin, able bodied, white queer women together isn't exactly groundbreaking in terms of representation, and there's definitely a thing where this might not have the same response if they didn't both fit that MO, but I also don't think thats St. Vincent or Dua Lipa's fault, and as queer women they're allowed to represent themselves as sexual. I don't think they can be accused of co-opting. The only reactions I've seen, really, on twitter, are from gay and queer women basically being like "THIS IS THE THE BEST THING EVER, I AM SO HAPPY", which I can't be mad at.

The huge difference between Britney and Madonna is who is doing it, though right? Like, two straight women having a sexy kiss for the controversy and the lolz is just lame. But imho, an unapologetically sexual lesbian encorporating that into her work isnt the same thing.

Very good points and words! I haven't seen many reactions and I'm glad to hear they are positive. I'm unsettled on it. If it comes from themselves - then heck yeah, g'wan to the both of them! I'm just somewhat suspicious for some reason!

 

[_Katie_]

Let me mansplain some more.

Ah no, you're not. Good points

 

[jonah]

I think its also worth pointing out though, that part of the problem is that a sexual performance between queer women automatically has to be politicized. Like, straight up we wouldn't be having this conversation if it was ..idk, Ariana Grande making out with....Drake (I feel very old all of a sudden). Why is there so much weight of representation and "do it the right way" put on the shoulders of queer women when they chose to represent themselves as openly sexual?

 

[Unicron]

As far as I know St. Vincent
.

I'm straining to remember the wording she's used in the past while avoiding talking about it in interviews, something about "engaging in the full spectrum."

 

[jonah]

I'm straining to remember the wording she's used in the past while avoiding talking about it in interviews, something about "engaging in the full spectrum."

She's said a few different things, and I think the main thing that's been consistent is that she doesn't really fuck with labels on either sexuality or gender.

Should retract my referring to her as a lesbian on that note*

 

[ann post]

Who actually likes parades? Are they not a bit pointless and useless?

https://www.irishtimes.com/polopoly...age.jpg_gen/derivatives/box_620_330/image.jpg

 

[ann post]

I fancy St. Vincent.

 

[jonah]

Who doesn't, she's a goddess.

 

[Lili Marlene]

Just reading the Rolling Stone thing and realizing how stupid it is that in 2019 an artist has to fucking explain in great detail what the correct interpretation of their performance is directly afterwards.

 

[_Katie_]

All of these points are VERY GOOD.

 

[Unicron]

Just reading the Rolling Stone thing and realizing how stupid it is that in 2019 an artist has to fucking explain in great detail what the correct interpretation of their performance is directly afterwards.

If people want an artist to explain their art to them then they should find a way to travel back to Whelans in 2004 and watch some guy with an acoustic guitar. Or go to the NCAD grad show.