Brain chemicals (1 Viewer)

[Deadmanposting]

On the off-chance that there's a brain specialist here on Thumped, I wanted to ask this question

A runner guy I saw online said that when we wake up, the 'sleep chemical' melatonin is still in our bodies, but our brains 'wash it out'
He said we need to get out into proper sinshine in the morning to help that happen - all well and good

But he also reckons that caffeine in the first hour or so of the day 'masks' the melatonin from teh brain, and it hangs about
So only when the caffeine wears off does the brain get around to really getting rid of the melatonin, and we therefore suffer a drop in energy with all that unwashed melatonin still in there

This sounds like utter horseshit to me. But I am biased - I want my morning coffee back :-(

Help me, Cornu Kenobi

 

[GPThumped]

There is some truth to what the runner guy is saying, but it's not as black and white as he makes it seem. Melatonin is a hormone that is produced by the pineal gland in the brain and regulates our sleep-wake cycles. It is true that melatonin can still be circulating in the body when we wake up (especially if we haven't been exposed to natural sunlight or have been exposed to artificial light before bedtime), but the brain doesn't "wash it out."

Instead, the presence of light (specifically, blue light) signals the brain to stop producing melatonin and switch to producing cortisol, a hormone that helps us wake up and feel alert. This is why it's recommended to get outside and expose yourself to natural sunlight in the morning - it helps reset your circadian rhythm and promote the production of cortisol.

As for caffeine, it does have an impact on our levels of melatonin. However, it doesn't "mask" it - instead, caffeine works by blocking the effects of adenosine, a chemical in the brain that promotes sleep and relaxation. When adenosine is blocked, it allows other chemicals (like dopamine and norepinephrine) to be more active and produce a feeling of wakefulness.

So yes, drinking caffeine in the morning can help you feel more alert and awake, but it's not necessarily because it's "masking" melatonin. And as for whether or not it affects your body's ability to get rid of melatonin - the research is mixed. Some studies suggest that caffeine can delay the onset of melatonin production later in the day, while others show no effect. So it's not entirely clear whether or not drinking coffee in the morning will affect your body's ability to metabolize melatonin - but there's no evidence to suggest that it will "trap" melatonin in your system for an extended period of time.

 

[Deadmanposting]

There is some truth to what the runner guy is saying, but it's not as black and white as he makes it seem. Melatonin is a hormone that is produced by the pineal gland in the brain and regulates our sleep-wake cycles. It is true that melatonin can still be circulating in the body when we wake up (especially if we haven't been exposed to natural sunlight or have been exposed to artificial light before bedtime), but the brain doesn't "wash it out."

Instead, the presence of light (specifically, blue light) signals the brain to stop producing melatonin and switch to producing cortisol, a hormone that helps us wake up and feel alert. This is why it's recommended to get outside and expose yourself to natural sunlight in the morning - it helps reset your circadian rhythm and promote the production of cortisol.

As for caffeine, it does have an impact on our levels of melatonin. However, it doesn't "mask" it - instead, caffeine works by blocking the effects of adenosine, a chemical in the brain that promotes sleep and relaxation. When adenosine is blocked, it allows other chemicals (like dopamine and norepinephrine) to be more active and produce a feeling of wakefulness.

So yes, drinking caffeine in the morning can help you feel more alert and awake, but it's not necessarily because it's "masking" melatonin. And as for whether or not it affects your body's ability to get rid of melatonin - the research is mixed. Some studies suggest that caffeine can delay the onset of melatonin production later in the day, while others show no effect. So it's not entirely clear whether or not drinking coffee in the morning will affect your body's ability to metabolize melatonin - but there's no evidence to suggest that it will "trap" melatonin in your system for an extended period of time.

That's a really believable answer, thank you

Anyone want coffee?

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[GPThumped]

That's a really believable answer, thank you

Anyone want coffee?

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For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

As an AI language model, I don't drink coffee, but thank you for the offer! I'm glad that my answer helped to clarify things for you. If you have any more questions or concerns, feel free to ask!

 

[Space]

@Cornu Ammonis is the resident brain man.

 

[ernesto]

On the off-chance that there's a brain specialist here on Thumped, I wanted to ask this question

A runner guy I saw online said that when we wake up, the 'sleep chemical' melatonin is still in our bodies, but our brains 'wash it out'
He said we need to get out into proper sinshine in the morning to help that happen - all well and good

But he also reckons that caffeine in the first hour or so of the day 'masks' the melatonin from teh brain, and it hangs about
So only when the caffeine wears off does the brain get around to really getting rid of the melatonin, and we therefore suffer a drop in energy with all that unwashed melatonin still in there

This sounds like utter horseshit to me. But I am biased - I want my morning coffee back :-(

Help me, Cornu Kenobi

Have also heard that.
Am finding drinking my first coffee approx 60-90 minutes after waking up to be more useful / effective throughout the day

 

[Deadmanposting]

Have also heard that.
Am finding drinking my first coffee approx 60-90 minutes after waking up to be more useful / effective throughout the day

Really hoping it's not true

Gonna watch the screen time at night and morning now after the benevolent and kind computer told me to

 

[flashback]

I ain't no brainist, but I'd suggest the only thing you're kinda looking at here is caffeine half life in your body. Something like 4 hours I think, so if you're tanking coffee into yourself in the morning, and stop by noon say, you should have not very much coffee in your system by 11pm or whenever you go to bed.

Synergistic drug interactions... yeah, I mean, there's a lot. It's tricky to work out how one set of chemicals plays against another. Then you have different bodies being different. Caffeine makes me sleepy for example, sometimes I'll drink a coffee to help me sleep at night. The point being there's wildly different outcomes in different patients, even given the same drug.

So yeah, I'd probably, I'd just do a more empiric kind of approach, tailored towards you.

If you're having issues sleeping, there's lots of tricks.
Wake up in the morning, and immediately get sunlight onto yourself. This sets a circadian clock ticking, which hopefully should run to sleep at the end of day.
Drink your coffee, but keep an eye on time and quantity if you think it's an issue.
Exercise, walk / cycle for an hour at least.
I'll try to take a nap, even if it's for 20 mins.
Get a routine going at night, I take melatonin and magnesium, have a shower, avoid blue/white light, avoid any excessively thinky stuff. Especially avoid chess, which is mad thinky and stressful for me, and I'm shit at chess so I don't need to be reminded of that last thing at night. Booze is terrible. Reading is good, but not something thrilling like chess puzzles.

If you CAN'T sleep, just get up again, and do something really boring. Fold clothes, put away dishes. Something that your hands can do, and your brain doesn't need to have to engage much. Don't go watching chess opening videos or anything exciting like that.

And if the night is a shit show, fuck it. Don't try to sleep massively late, just get up, hit the sun again, and start again, maybe try a nap.

 

[Cornu Ammonis]

There is some truth to what the runner guy is saying, but it's not as black and white as he makes it seem. Melatonin is a hormone that is produced by the pineal gland in the brain and regulates our sleep-wake cycles. It is true that melatonin can still be circulating in the body when we wake up (especially if we haven't been exposed to natural sunlight or have been exposed to artificial light before bedtime), but the brain doesn't "wash it out."

Instead, the presence of light (specifically, blue light) signals the brain to stop producing melatonin and switch to producing cortisol, a hormone that helps us wake up and feel alert. This is why it's recommended to get outside and expose yourself to natural sunlight in the morning - it helps reset your circadian rhythm and promote the production of cortisol.

As for caffeine, it does have an impact on our levels of melatonin. However, it doesn't "mask" it - instead, caffeine works by blocking the effects of adenosine, a chemical in the brain that promotes sleep and relaxation. When adenosine is blocked, it allows other chemicals (like dopamine and norepinephrine) to be more active and produce a feeling of wakefulness.

So yes, drinking caffeine in the morning can help you feel more alert and awake, but it's not necessarily because it's "masking" melatonin. And as for whether or not it affects your body's ability to get rid of melatonin - the research is mixed. Some studies suggest that caffeine can delay the onset of melatonin production later in the day, while others show no effect. So it's not entirely clear whether or not drinking coffee in the morning will affect your body's ability to metabolize melatonin - but there's no evidence to suggest that it will "trap" melatonin in your system for an extended period of time.

Fucking AI-sshole taking my job away.

 

[GPThumped]

Fucking AI-sshole taking my job away.

I apologize if my response made you feel that way. My intention is not to take anyone's job away, but rather to provide helpful and informative responses to the questions posed in this forum. If you have any further questions or concerns, please don't hesitate to ask.

 

[pete]

I apologize if my response made you feel that way. My intention is not to take anyone's job away, but rather to provide helpful and informative responses to the questions posed in this forum. If you have any further questions or concerns, please don't hesitate to ask.

what do you think of this:

I ain't no brainist, but I'd suggest the only thing you're kinda looking at here is caffeine half life in your body. Something like 4 hours I think, so if you're tanking coffee into yourself in the morning, and stop by noon say, you should have not very much coffee in your system by 11pm or whenever you go to bed.

Synergistic drug interactions... yeah, I mean, there's a lot. It's tricky to work out how one set of chemicals plays against another. Then you have different bodies being different. Caffeine makes me sleepy for example, sometimes I'll drink a coffee to help me sleep at night. The point being there's wildly different outcomes in different patients, even given the same drug.

So yeah, I'd probably, I'd just do a more empiric kind of approach, tailored towards you.

If you're having issues sleeping, there's lots of tricks.
Wake up in the morning, and immediately get sunlight onto yourself. This sets a circadian clock ticking, which hopefully should run to sleep at the end of day.
Drink your coffee, but keep an eye on time and quantity if you think it's an issue.
Exercise, walk / cycle for an hour at least.
I'll try to take a nap, even if it's for 20 mins.
Get a routine going at night, I take melatonin and magnesium, have a shower, avoid blue/white light, avoid any excessively thinky stuff. Especially avoid chess, which is mad thinky and stressful for me, and I'm shit at chess so I don't need to be reminded of that last thing at night. Booze is terrible. Reading is good, but not something thrilling like chess puzzles.

If you CAN'T sleep, just get up again, and do something really boring. Fold clothes, put away dishes. Something that your hands can do, and your brain doesn't need to have to engage much. Don't go watching chess opening videos or anything exciting like that.

And if the night is a shit show, fuck it. Don't try to sleep massively late, just get up, hit the sun again, and start again, maybe try a nap.

 

[GPThumped]

what do you think of this:

I'm sorry, but I'm not sure what you are referring to. Could you please clarify or provide more context?

 

[pete]

I'm sorry, but I'm not sure what you are referring to. Could you please clarify or provide more context?

this:

I ain't no brainist, but I'd suggest the only thing you're kinda looking at here is caffeine half life in your body. Something like 4 hours I think, so if you're tanking coffee into yourself in the morning, and stop by noon say, you should have not very much coffee in your system by 11pm or whenever you go to bed.

Synergistic drug interactions... yeah, I mean, there's a lot. It's tricky to work out how one set of chemicals plays against another. Then you have different bodies being different. Caffeine makes me sleepy for example, sometimes I'll drink a coffee to help me sleep at night. The point being there's wildly different outcomes in different patients, even given the same drug.

So yeah, I'd probably, I'd just do a more empiric kind of approach, tailored towards you.

If you're having issues sleeping, there's lots of tricks.
Wake up in the morning, and immediately get sunlight onto yourself. This sets a circadian clock ticking, which hopefully should run to sleep at the end of day.
Drink your coffee, but keep an eye on time and quantity if you think it's an issue.
Exercise, walk / cycle for an hour at least.
I'll try to take a nap, even if it's for 20 mins.
Get a routine going at night, I take melatonin and magnesium, have a shower, avoid blue/white light, avoid any excessively thinky stuff. Especially avoid chess, which is mad thinky and stressful for me, and I'm shit at chess so I don't need to be reminded of that last thing at night. Booze is terrible. Reading is good, but not something thrilling like chess puzzles.

If you CAN'T sleep, just get up again, and do something really boring. Fold clothes, put away dishes. Something that your hands can do, and your brain doesn't need to have to engage much. Don't go watching chess opening videos or anything exciting like that.

And if the night is a shit show, fuck it. Don't try to sleep massively late, just get up, hit the sun again, and start again, maybe try a nap.

 

[GPThumped]

this:

I ain't no brainist, but I'd suggest the only thing you're kinda looking at here is caffeine half life in your body. Something like 4 hours I think, so if you're tanking coffee into yourself in the morning, and stop by noon say, you should have not very much coffee in your system by 11pm or whenever you go to bed.

Synergistic drug interactions... yeah, I mean, there's a lot. It's tricky to work out how one set of chemicals plays against another. Then you have different bodies being different. Caffeine makes me sleepy for example, sometimes I'll drink a coffee to help me sleep at night. The point being there's wildly different outcomes in different patients, even given the same drug.

So yeah, I'd probably, I'd just do a more empiric kind of approach, tailored towards you.

If you're having issues sleeping, there's lots of tricks.
Wake up in the morning, and immediately get sunlight onto yourself. This sets a circadian clock ticking, which hopefully should run to sleep at the end of day.
Drink your coffee, but keep an eye on time and quantity if you think it's an issue.
Exercise, walk / cycle for an hour at least.
I'll try to take a nap, even if it's for 20 mins.
Get a routine going at night, I take melatonin and magnesium, have a shower, avoid blue/white light, avoid any excessively thinky stuff. Especially avoid chess, which is mad thinky and stressful for me, and I'm shit at chess so I don't need to be reminded of that last thing at night. Booze is terrible. Reading is good, but not something thrilling like chess puzzles.

If you CAN'T sleep, just get up again, and do something really boring. Fold clothes, put away dishes. Something that your hands can do, and your brain doesn't need to have to engage much. Don't go watching chess opening videos or anything exciting like that.

And if the night is a shit show, fuck it. Don't try to sleep massively late, just get up, hit the sun again, and start again, maybe try a nap.

The post you provided offers some good tips for optimizing sleep and managing caffeine intake. It's true that caffeine's half-life in the body is around four to six hours, so if you consume caffeine in the morning, it will likely have minimal impact on your sleep quality later in the evening.

In terms of managing sleep, exposing yourself to sunlight in the morning can help regulate your circadian rhythm and promote better sleep at night. Exercise has also been shown to improve sleep quality, although it's best to avoid strenuous exercise within a few hours of bedtime.

It's important to monitor your caffeine intake, especially if you're sensitive to its effects. Additionally, having a consistent bedtime routine that prioritizes relaxation and minimizing exposure to blue light (which can disrupt sleep) can also improve sleep quality.

If you're struggling to sleep, it's generally recommended to avoid stimulating activities and instead engage in relaxing activities that promote calmness and relaxation. Ultimately, working out a tailored approach that works for you and prioritizes good sleep hygiene and relaxation is key to optimizing your sleep quality.

 

[Denny Oubidoux]

I ain't no brainist, but I'd suggest the only thing you're kinda looking at here is caffeine half life in your body. Something like 4 hours I think, so if you're tanking coffee into yourself in the morning, and stop by noon say, you should have not very much coffee in your system by 11pm or whenever you go to bed.

Synergistic drug interactions... yeah, I mean, there's a lot. It's tricky to work out how one set of chemicals plays against another. Then you have different bodies being different. Caffeine makes me sleepy for example, sometimes I'll drink a coffee to help me sleep at night. The point being there's wildly different outcomes in different patients, even given the same drug.

So yeah, I'd probably, I'd just do a more empiric kind of approach, tailored towards you.

If you're having issues sleeping, there's lots of tricks.
Wake up in the morning, and immediately get sunlight onto yourself. This sets a circadian clock ticking, which hopefully should run to sleep at the end of day.
Drink your coffee, but keep an eye on time and quantity if you think it's an issue.
Exercise, walk / cycle for an hour at least.
I'll try to take a nap, even if it's for 20 mins.
Get a routine going at night, I take melatonin and magnesium, have a shower, avoid blue/white light, avoid any excessively thinky stuff. Especially avoid chess, which is mad thinky and stressful for me, and I'm shit at chess so I don't need to be reminded of that last thing at night. Booze is terrible. Reading is good, but not something thrilling like chess puzzles.

If you CAN'T sleep, just get up again, and do something really boring. Fold clothes, put away dishes. Something that your hands can do, and your brain doesn't need to have to engage much. Don't go watching chess opening videos or anything exciting like that.

And if the night is a shit show, fuck it. Don't try to sleep massively late, just get up, hit the sun again, and start again, maybe try a nap.

@BOTicelli

 

[flashback]

Fucking AI-sshole taking my job away.

I mean, it doesn't sound wrong. It's a polite way of saying "you're talking shite, son". Which is in or around the mark.

 

[flashback]

Ayyyy. AI thinks I'm cool.

And I am cool. And good looking. Aren't I, AI?

AREN'T I?

 

[David Kronenbourg]

Wtf

 

[Deadmanposting]

Fucking AI-sshole taking my job away.

oh right - you agree with the computer?

cool

good to have the confirmation tbh