Marriage Equality Referendum (2 Viewers)

[Denny Oubidoux]

Just because loonies are invoking it doesn't make it de facto a bad thing.
Devils quoting scripture and all that.

No, but I just have doubts about the entire premise of natural law. Is murder bad because there is something inherently, naturally bad about it or is it just because most of us don't like it? I don't see how there can be anything more to it than a general consensus and that breaks down the farther from things like murder that you go. Alcohol, gambling, porn, same-sex marriage etc. To approach these issues as if there is some kind of inherent naturally-occurring objective morality rating to be found in them doesn't make sense to me (I know I'm probably missing the point, out of my depth...)

 

[7 - No tomorrow]

No, but I just have doubts about the entire premise of natural law. Is murder bad because there is something inherently, naturally bad about it or is it just because most of us don't like it? I don't see how there can be anything more to it than a general consensus and that breaks down the farther from things like murder that you go. Alcohol, gambling, porn, same-sex marriage etc. To approach these issues as if there is some kind of inherent naturally-occurring objective morality rating to be found in them doesn't make sense to me (I know I'm probably missing the point, out of my depth...)

I'm not a philosopher, but generally when you're doing active harm to others, you're crossing a line.
That line is blurry, with porn and addiction as to how much harm you cause. But homicide is fairly clear cut.

 

[тхеодоре кацзынски]

No, but I just have doubts about the entire premise of natural law. Is murder bad because there is something inherently, naturally bad about it or is it just because most of us don't like it? I don't see how there can be anything more to it than a general consensus and that breaks down the farther from things like murder that you go. Alcohol, gambling, porn, same-sex marriage etc. To approach these issues as if there is some kind of inherent naturally-occurring objective morality rating to be found in them doesn't make sense to me (I know I'm probably missing the point, out of my depth...)

Natural law would be that recognised universally so, no matter where you are, murder is a bad thing as it deprives of life- life being the ultimate good.
I think the natural law argument here would be that marriage, as it stands now, is aimed at recreation, and ultimately, perpetuation of humanity is a good thing. Gay marriage on the other hand cannot (naturally) bring about life and so is a bad thing.

 

[Denny Oubidoux]

I'm not a philosopher, but generally when you're doing active harm to others, you're crossing a line.
That line is blurry, with porn and addiction as to how much harm you cause. But homicide is fairly clear cut.

Natural law would be that recognised universally so, no matter where you are, murder is a bad thing as it deprives of life- life being the ultimate good.
I think the natural law argument here would be that marriage, as it stands now, is aimed at recreation, and ultimately, perpetuation of humanity is a good thing. Gay marriage on the other hand cannot (naturally) bring about life and so is a bad thing.

Where is anything written about marriage in natural law? it's all makey uppy nonsense

 

[nooleen]

if you look at a leaf or something under a microscope it's written right there

 

[тхеодоре кацзынски]

Where is anything written about marriage in natural law? it's all makey uppy nonsense

Well that's part of the problem, it's not explicitly written, rather its that which is 'self evident'.

 

[Denny Oubidoux]

Well that's part of the problem, it's not explicitly written, rather its that which is 'self evident'.

Exactly

 

[тхеодоре кацзынски]

Exactly

I think the point would be that it doesn't need to be written.

 

[pete]

I think the natural law argument here would be that marriage, as it stands now, is aimed at recreation

Not in my experience it isn't.

LesDawson.gif

 

[Denny Oubidoux]

I think the point would be that it doesn't need to be written.

Whereof one cannot write, thereof one must be silent.

 

[7 - No tomorrow]

We are really down the rabbit hole here

 

[тхеодоре кацзынски]

Not in my experience it isn't.

LesDawson.gif

Can't believe I messed that up.
Procreation.

Whereof one cannot write, thereof one must be silent.

Whereof one cannot procreate, thereof one must not marry.

I jest.

St Paul would have it "that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts", surely that outdoes anything written on paper?

We are really down the rabbit hole here

We may soon come out the other side.

 

[therealjohnny]

 

[7 - No tomorrow]

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[nooleen]

"ooh...pflag"

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[pete]

Barnardos, the Irish Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children (ISPCC), and theChildren’s Rights Alliance (CRA) said they had come together to call for a Yes vote in part because groups within the No campaign were “using children . . . as pawns” and in a way that was “dishonest”.

Fergus Finlay, chief executive of Barnardos, said every time he saw a poster calling for a No vote because “every child deserves a mother and father”, he saw “a sickening insult to the thousands of lone parents and children who love and care for each other in Ireland”.

Children’s charities call for Yes in same-sex marriage vote

 

[magicbastarder]

I think the natural law argument here would be that marriage, as it stands now, is aimed at recreation

i think you've a very strange, but positive, view of marriage.

 

[Lili Marlene]

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[Unicron]

The two places I've been driving though mostly in the past fortnight have been Dublin and Maynooth. In both places I was struck by how outmatched the yes side seemed to be in terms of postering. I was in Naas this afternoon and every single lamppost appeared to have a yes poster up, didn't see a single no one.

 

[Lili Marlene]

I listened to the irish times podcast with Breda, laugh riot. Usual stupidness aside, her main argument is about this weird 'blood link' thing she likes to throw out when pressed to explain why she's banging on about surrogacy so much.

Rather than doing work for the past hour and a bit I'm after doing a bit of delving into the 2009 case she's always referring to, where a gay man was a sperm donor for a lesbian couple. Long story short, her reading of the outcome of this case is totally at odds with the actual judgement made. Just more Iona Institute purposeful misinterpretations.