General election 2020 (6 Viewers)

[Cormcolash]

you're being facetious right?

because I genuinely believe a big part of progress is them not being in power

You're reading my post wrong, that's what it says

 

[Kermit McDermott]

I'd love to see SF get a chance at doing anything different, but I really don't think they'd be anywhere near as 'progressive' as they like to sound whilst in opposition, because to a large extent SF are opportunists that will point whichever way they think will get them votes. I'm quite confident that SF in charge would go in a very similar manner to how Syriza have gone in Greece – get some useful things done but in reality shift much more to the centre or indeed right than any of the things they said during election campaigns.
I'd love to be proved wrong by that, but can't see the Sinners ever making any actual concrete change to 'the system'.

I was thinking the same recently. Could Sinn Fein really do much better if they were the government? They talk a good game, but that's the easy part. They almost got in last time. It can stay a pipedream as far as I concerned. I'll never vote for them.

 

[ann post]

I was thinking the same recently. Could Sinn Fein really do much better if they were the government? They talk a good game, but that's the easy part. They almost got in last time. It can stay a pipedream as far as I concerned. I vote for Fianna Fail and Fine Geal.

With any party, look at the legislation they have put through. The rest if faff and showbiz.

Bills & Acts

Bills and Acts of the Irish Parliament

www.oireachtas.ie

Browse through, see who's putting forward the ones you want for the place you want to live.

 

[Kermit McDermott]

I don't care what they propose. Its who they are associated with.

 

[ann post]

I don't care what they propose. Its who they are associated with.

Who is that now, in the year 2021? Or is it 1980 in you head for life?

 

[Kermit McDermott]

Maybe in a few decades....if they behave themselves

 

[ann post]

It's still there.

I don't think you are any less sectarian than anyone in modern sinn fein to be honest. In fact you are saying outwardly you are committing to it for life. Decolonise your head.

 

[Kermit McDermott]

No I'm grand. Won't be doing that. I'm sure they will manage without me.

 

[ann post]

No I'm grand.

If i agreed, i wouldn't question it, but i have

 

[shitepipe]

The problem with getting into government is that 95% of it consists of trying to stop the whole fucking place falling apart into a feral mess of human depravity and carnage, therefore the urge is to maintain the status quo in order to stop this happening. The 5% that is available for progressing your ideology then seems like a drop in the ocean to those that want change.

Parties like SF would probably use the 5% as much as possible, but it's still only 5% and will always disappoint those who want wholesale change (same with GP/SD or any so called progressives) FFG are happy to use 1% of their 5% allowance safe in the knowledge that that the show is still on the road.

It's only when things get so bad that a majority are prepared to accept the risk of a feral mess of human depravity and carnage that real change will happen. I wouldn't hold my breath....

 

[magicbastarder]

i think i mentioned it before, but there was a FOT article back about 6 months ago about how ireland handled the initial stages of the pandemic quite well, because we're good at doing things on an ad-hoc basis. because in ireland, the urgent driving out the important is the normal state of affairs.

 

[Cormcolash]

The problem with getting into government is that 95% of it consists of trying to stop the whole fucking place falling apart into a feral mess of human depravity and carnage, therefore the urge is to maintain the status quo in order to stop this happening. The 5% that is available for progressing your ideology then seems like a drop in the ocean to those that want change.

Parties like SF would probably use the 5% as much as possible, but it's still only 5% and will always disappoint those who want wholesale change (same with GP/SD or any so called progressives) FFG are happy to use 1% of their 5% allowance safe in the knowledge that that the show is still on the road.

It's only when things get so bad that a majority are prepared to accept the risk of a feral mess of human depravity and carnage that real change will happen. I wouldn't hold my breath....

Yeah, the thing is that the people in comfortable or well-off positions are the ones that will immediately be up in arms any time there are any changes that affect them negatively, and it's very hard to make things better for less well-off sections of society without impacting those who already hold the wealth. It's obvious that the whole societal and political system we live under is already geared to favour the powerful, and it's going to be incredibly difficult to change any of that without their support, because their support generally controls the structures that you would want to change.

 

[magicbastarder]

i can't remember where i heard the line (possibly in the wire? god forbid a middle aged man would quote the wire) - but i'm fond of repeating the maxim 'the system evolves to protect itself'; in any organisation which is around long enough, the processes which run their systems become far more important than what those systems are supposed to deliver. i see it in the large multinational i work for, where the paperwork around what you do takes 10 times as long as actually doing it. and where my wife works (public service) where the decisions are made by people who typically are only a few years away from retirement, and do *not* want to rock the boat, because they won't get to enjoy any benefit from any insitutional changes they make.

 

[Lili Marlene]

The problem with getting into government is that 95% of it consists of trying to stop the whole fucking place falling apart into a feral mess of human depravity and carnage, therefore the urge is to maintain the status quo in order to stop this happening. The 5% that is available for progressing your ideology then seems like a drop in the ocean to those that want change.

Parties like SF would probably use the 5% as much as possible, but it's still only 5% and will always disappoint those who want wholesale change (same with GP/SD or any so called progressives) FFG are happy to use 1% of their 5% allowance safe in the knowledge that that the show is still on the road.

It's only when things get so bad that a majority are prepared to accept the risk of a feral mess of human depravity and carnage that real change will happen. I wouldn't hold my breath....

Shitepipe the accelerationist

 

[Lili Marlene]

But it is an argument as to why these things need to be won at the ballot box, and also why people need to never shut up calling out what capitalism does to the world so the "centre" and "sensible" opinion is shifting way further left. Reagan and Thatcher in reverse.

 

[shitepipe]

Shitepipe the accelerationist

Ha, not quite- but I do think that a revolution/s of some description is the inevitable conclusion of inequalities driven by capitalism as it is currently practiced... Brexit is one form of this revolution- it was one of the few times the 'masses' could actually decide in a material way the future destiny of a country, without all of various layers of the system being able to whir into action and act as a buffer to real change.

The unfortunate thing is, when the revolution does happen, we shoulddn't assume it will be the one that we envisage- it will probably look more like Brexit than some kind of idyllic socialist paradise...

 

[egg_]

... or like Mexico, or Syria

 

[Lili Marlene]

Ha, not quite- but I do think that a revolution/s of some description is the inevitable conclusion of inequalities driven by capitalism as it is currently practiced... Brexit is one form of this revolution- it was one of the few times the 'masses' could actually decide in a material way the future destiny of a country, without all of various layers of the system being able to whir into action and act as a buffer to real change.

The unfortunate thing is, when the revolution does happen, we shoulddn't assume it will be the one that we envisage- it will probably look more like Brexit than some kind of idyllic socialist paradise...

If nothing is done to stop the way things are going then yeah i'd imagine so. In all my years on thumped i'm yet to come across a post where anyone on here has predicted an optimistic socialist paradise just around the corner tbh

It's damned if you do, damned if you don't though. You're naive and should be ignored if you're optimistic and you're a begrudger who is too rigid and obsessed with purity if you're negative. The only things these have in common is an absolute refusal to move in any way away from more capitalism always, forever.

 

[ann post]

Arts Minister Seeks Cross-Party Support for Universal Basic Income for Artists

Proposal is being explored as part of the new national economic plan within the Department of the Taoiseach.

journalofmusic.com

 

[hydromancer]

I was thinking the same recently. Could Sinn Fein really do much better if they were the government? They talk a good game, but that's the easy part. They almost got in last time. It can stay a pipedream as far as I concerned. I'll never vote for them.

The point surely is that they are the only party elected to sit in both the Republic and Northern Ireland something that differentiates them from every other party in our government.

I don't care what they propose. Its who they are associated with.

You might as well say the same about our own and the British government not to mention the political representatives of unionists in that case. I am not sure if it's that easy to ignore or disengage with them not least since Brexit has recently moved the North economically closer to us and away from the UK in some respects.