election (2 Viewers)

[avernus]

anyone see that documentary the other night on CH4 about the elections? Fucking evangelical christians being told that "gays are coming out of the closet..and getting into your children's clostets!!" by a fucking minister..who also said that church and state should not be separate and that was why he was voting dubya.

America is a cool place.

 

[ElderLemon]

...but you hardly agree with all of Bush's views then, also.

No - altho' Bush did speak in favour of Gay Civil Unions last week.

 

[ann post]

[completely off the point]

Why gay civil unions, but not gay marriages?

If you're grand with one, what's the problem with the other?

[/completely off the point]

i asked a local about this:

basically, a marriage was originally a religious thing (fuck off egg; other liberals..) in america so to say a gay marriage is ok really fucks with the backbone elements of the religions..which are dominant in the us....so a civil onion is way easier to pass because it doesnt require the vatican to take it up the ass etc..

its just easier all round.

 

[Vinnie]

So you would vote for a candidate that you are almost entirely opposed to ideologically simply because he shares your views on one key issue (unlike most Bush voters who would share his stance on any number of issues)? How curious.

Yes, my prolife views are strong - as are your prochoice ones. My view wasn't going to be shifted, and I certainly had no intentions of trying to shift yours. My 'personal theories', such as they were, were about nothing to with abortion, but rather the psychology of voter choice. I do not hold extreme views, and neither am I a right-wing ideologue. My views are mainstream Irish pro-life views, and if I'm against the death penalty and in favour of a gay partnership law I can hardly be accused of being a right wing ideologue.

 

[snakybus]

here, does anyone else think USA is a country full of mentallers?

how can the country that produces Bill Hicks also produce Rush Limbaugh?

and why is it that most Americans think that they have to be one or the other?

and why do one hate the other so much - I think Elder Lemon is misguided, but Jane's rants clearly demonstrate to me what's wrong with America - we want a mud wrestle! Not a tea-sipping, polite debate, goddammit! So fuck you and fuck all you represent. Hell I'm gonna bomb you while I'm at it.

I think the so-called liberal America has let itself down

 

[avernus]

[completely changing the subject]

Can any knowledgeable person tell me what precisely the story is with with these postal/provisional bollots in Ohio? How many are there, what's the procedure for counting them, and what way are they likely to lean?

[/completely changing the subject]

there have been reports that they are up to a 1/4 of a million, and the Kerry campaign claim they are between 75% - 85% leaning Kerry...due to them being contested black votes. that said, there have also been claims that there arent as many provisional ballots to close the gap even if theyre 100% Kerry votes.

who knows.

 

[sarah]

anyone see that documentary the other night on CH4 about the elections? Fucking evangelical christians being told that "gays are coming out of the closet..and getting into your children's clostets!!" by a fucking minister..who also said that church and state should not be separate and that was why he was voting dubya.

America is a cool place.

'With God on our side' I was watching it in disbelief as well,
kind of helps with understanding how so many people can completely
disregard all the reasons not to vote for Bush though.

 

[ITalkShite]

My favourite page in this thread was page 7.

 

[ElderLemon]

So you would vote for a candidate that you are almost entirely opposed to ideologically simply because he shares your views on one key issue (unlike most Bush voters who would share his stance on any number of issues)? How curious.

Not really. For instance, many West Virginian Democrats seem to have voted for Bush purely because he is seen as more pro-gun apparently. Some voters are motivated by what for them is one defining issue, others aren't. Different strokes for different folks....

 

[ElderLemon]

there have been reports that they are up to a 1/4 of a million, and the Kerry campaign claim they are between 75% - 85% leaning Kerry...due to them being contested black votes. that said, there have also been claims that there arent as many provisional ballots to close the gap even if theyre 100% Kerry votes.

who knows.

Interesting. Hopefully we might have some official figures later.

 

[egg_]

basically, a marriage was originally a religious thing (fuck off egg; other liberals..)

Hmmmph
A "marriage" was originally an animal thing. It's called "pair-bonding"
I don't understand the civil union thing. What's the difference between a civil union and a civil marriage? Is it only the name?

 

[LMD64]

Hmmmph
A "marriage" was originally an animal thing. It's called "pair-bonding"
I don't understand the civil union thing. What's the difference between a civil union and a civil marriage? Is it only the name?

edit; scrub that

a civil union is one recognised by the state, not the church.

a civil marriage is one where bothe mother-in-laws are on speaking terms, where the best man doesn't actually manage to insult/offend every single person at the afters, and where the priest doesn't slide under the table halfway through dessert after imbibing too much of the complementary brandy.

 

[egg_]

religion

Ain't no religion in a civil marriage

 

[Pantone247]

It's funny. When Michael Moore goes off on one, people jump up and down and clap their hands. But let someone else get pissed off, and, whoa, they're just a crank.

Awesome.

I think Michael Moore is just as much a crank as you Jane

Cowabunga

 

[egg_]

For instance, many West Virginian Democrats seem to have voted for Bush purely because he is seen as more pro-gun apparently. Some voters are motivated by what for them is one defining issue, others aren't. Different strokes for different folks....

"That's just the way things are" is no excuse for your own stance, ElderLemon. Voters need to take responsibility for their choices - "I got what I wanted, fuck everyone else" is just not acceptable

 

[ann post]

Egg:

Marriage = God

Union = Communist

Comprende?


edit: and i'm being that dumb because people, in general are that dumb.

 

[egg_]

 

[LMD64]

sorry egg, just in case you missed my witty repartee...

a civil union is one recognised by the state, not the church.

a civil marriage is one where bothe mother-in-laws are on speaking terms, where the best man doesn't actually manage to insult/offend every single person at the afters, and where the priest doesn't slide under the table halfway through dessert after imbibing too much of the complementary brandy.

 

[Vinnie]

They are the exception rather than the rule and that certainly doesn't make it right. It is democracy at it's most crass and selfish and ultimately at its most pointless. See Eggs point about "me first" politics

Not really. For instance, many West Virginian Democrats seem to have voted for Bush purely because he is seen as more pro-gun apparently. Some voters are motivated by what for them is one defining issue, others aren't. Different strokes for different folks....

 

[egg_]

a civil union is one recognised by the state, not the church.

So campaigning for Gay Civil Unions is the same as campaigning for the right of same sex couples to avail of the same ceremony myself and my wife availed of in the Registry Office on Grand Canal St?
That's what we call "marriage", folks.
Whether churches allow same-sex couples to avail of their union ceremonies which are also called "marriage" is not the State's business