Referendums 24, a woman's place is wherever she wants it to be? (2 Viewers)

[Jill Hives]

I've been trying to make that point in this thread already, but obviously failing

I think the point is, even if the supports not the best they still are obliged to help, so they exist. Taking that economic sentence out leaves a possible "get out" for the government to help. I'm viewing it as not just mother's with children, as most need to work outside the home, rather those with children with any disability that requires more care than just a physically or mentally healthy child of any age.

If you are caring for someone in your home rather than in a government funded facility/hospital (which are already over run) you should be compensated by the government to help care for them, just as if they were in government care. It just feels like taking out the economic wording is leaving those caregivers at a possible significant disadvantage to me. If you had a highly autistic child and needed to be a caregiver 24/7 to keep that child at home with you, there should be supports to help you.

I have a chronic condition, which thankfully I can handle on my own without any care or supports, but if I were to become unlucky and need help from family members, even if "not great" I would hope there were be supports for my partner to care for me in the future if he had to cut back on work to do so.

If the point was to change it from "women" to "caregiver", why not just change the word? Why rewrite it taking out the economic necessity bit? Maybe I'm just cynical but it seems like a future loophole for government to malign and disregard those in society that need the most help. imho

 

[Cornu Ammonis]

Saying the payment isn't significant is also saying that it exists.

And of course these things in context- the lower your income the more significant any support like that becomes.

Like I'm not saying you should get a divorce or anything just yet but I disagree with the approach your partner was coming from there.

Well, she’s speaking as a disabled woman working frontline with vulnerable families with disabled children and seeing the real world effects of current support systems daily. She has a much more nuanced view than me (and likely most people on this board?).

The supports are not keeping people above the poverty line, they are not keeping families off the streets (as these numbers keep increasing), they are not making it possible for a woman to be a caregiver full time (which is what the current wording suggests it should be doing), and the situation is only getting worse because the economic necessity side of things is already being ignored and the current system is tokenism in terms of supports given.

And in response to what @Jill Hives posted just now, this highlights these points. Carer’s allowance and other supports for carers are available but they are insufficient to actually live as a caregiver. I looked into taking them last year when my mother was extremely ill (and it looked like she was going to be extremely debilitated, luckily she recovered). There was no way I could afford to do it with the current costs of living. And I’m only talking about the bare minimum in terms of costs, not anything luxurious like an occasional gig in Whelans or anything like that.

 

[Cornu Ammonis]

I honestly don’t know what side of the fence I’m on right now and I’m essentially thinking out loud on Thumped.

 

[Jill Hives]

I honestly don’t know what side of the fence I’m on right now and I’m essentially thinking out loud on Thumped.

Me too.

 

[ann post]

Yes I agree with that but that isn't what the referendum question is asking.
They are not asking is carers allowance enough, they are asking is to remove the legal requirements for it in the constitution. I'm not criticising your partners experience, I'm saying the approach isn't on point for what the referendum is set up to do.

It's effectively do you agree with carers allowance y/n

Rather than

Do you think carers allowance is enough y/n

 

[ann post]

All yes who say ye are in the fence, what is the argument for yes?

 

[Jill Hives]

All yes who say ye are in the fence, what is the argument for yes?

I'm 95% Yes/No. There is that niggly bit of feeling sexist (and that it won't come up again with better wording) and agreeing (for very different reasons) with people I abhor.

 

[Kermit McDermott]

Still don't know.
I might do an eeny miny moe.
The PC version.

 

[ann post]

I'm 95% Yes/No. There is that niggly bit of feeling sexist (and that it won't come up again with better wording) and agreeing (for very different reasons) with people I abhor.

The abhor people are annoying, I'm going the email the TDs route on that ftw.

 

[Unicron]

There is that niggly bit of feeling sexist (and that it won't come up again with better wording)

They've really made a balls of it with the new wording. I've heard people complaining about that clause for decades and if today's vote was for simple deletion I'd vote for it in a heartbeat, I think most yes/no people would too.

 

[Kermit McDermott]

When I see all the bible basher types advocating for a No vote it makes me want to vote Yes

 

[ann post]

Can I read this anywhere except twitter? Don't have an account anymore

Sorry I was busy destroying the planet with my car again.

the thread has the folliowing, oi think you can see these if I link direct?

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Opinion: The care referendum is problematic, paternalistic and downright irresponsible

Dr Orla Tinsley on why she will be voting No in the care referendum on Friday.

www.thejournal.ie

Opinion: Mainstream feminists are backing the 'care amendment' - this is a mistake

Dr Rosaleen McDonagh says the mainstream women’s movement is unwittingly reinforcing patriarchal norms by supporting the vote on 8 March.

www.thejournal.ie

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Why I am voting no on the care referendum - spunout

With a referendum on the way Ross shares how he decided he will vote yes on the family amendment, but why the care amendment worries him.

spunout.ie

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[Jill Hives]

If the didn’t rewrite it, it would be a no brainer. Yes/Yes. Just change the word.

Voting Yes/No goes against everything I would normally stand for but I know after work I will. The wording is actually regressive for me, in terms of the most maligned and under supported Irish citizens.

 

[ann post]

If the didn’t rewrite it, it would be a no brainer. Yes/Yes. Just change the word.

Voting Yes/No goes against everything I would normally stand for but I know after work I will. The wording is actually regressive for me, in terms of the most maligned and under supported Irish citizens.

I'll miss you when you get placed in the home next week

 

[Jill Hives]

I'll miss you when you get placed in the home next week

?

 

[ann post]

?

I was doing a sarcasm, like the time the marriage referendum passed and some gay dude tweeted 'gotcha! now where's all the babies so we can start eating them'

except it was along the lines of having hit squads going round ireland on monday morning rounding up all the women and placing them in the home.

 

[Jill Hives]

I was doing a sarcasm, like the time the marriage referendum passed and some gay dude tweeted 'gotcha! now where's all the babies so we can start eating them'

except it was along the lines of having hit squads going round ireland on monday morning rounding up all the women and placing them in the home.

Ha! Sorry. My head went admittedly to care home.

 

[ann post]

There is a side point on basic democracy too thats kinda important.

Like the govt ignores the citizens assembly, and a yes is giving that a stamp of approval. The Leoniberals will have a game of soggy biscuit together if that works out for them.

 

[egg_]

I expect the citizen's assembly wording was changed because of the financial implications for the state, which would be substantial

 

[ann post]

I expect the citizen's assembly wording was changed because of the financial implications for the state, which would be substantial

I know, thats why I call them Leoniberals. They think a state is for something else.