World Trade Centre Towers thing (1 Viewer)

[pete]

I'm no expert, but i'd imagine that airliners that hit the ground in one piece leave a bigger hole than the "15 feet wide, 10 feet deep" described by a CNN reporter....

 

[Pantone247]

wasn't there talk of the one in pittsburgh being shot down??

 

[Pervert Mechanic]

Pittsburgh! there sure was! but where's the coverage of that, eh? eh? I hope Bush doesn't come over all "Pontious Pilate" and succumb to a nation baying for blood.

 

[mugwump]

i can see the americans 'teaming up' with the russians and anybody else who is willing and going into afghanistan...what is it Bush said..they won't distinguish between the terrorists and those who harbor them.
all the finger pointing is being directed at bin laden (who the americans armed by the way when he was fighting the russians in afghanistan) but they just don't know yet...this is really fucked up.

 

[Anne OMalley]

Even those of us who deplore the role the US has assigned itself in global politics must recognise the tragedy here. That said, you have to be worried by the way this will darken the global political stage, no matter who the perpetrators turn out to be.

First, it seems very likely that with Bush in charge the reprisals will be massive and ruthless.

Second, apart from the more immediate repercussions the long-term outlook is very worrying.

The anxiety around this kind of event will inevitably lend huge credibility to Bush's ideology, previously deeply unpopular abroad and even across large swathes of America. Even if Bush himself is seen to act improperly (and some are saying he already has by not returning to the White House promptly enough), among the broader effects we can expect are:

- an increase in anxiety about "rogue states" and a concommitant increase in US defense spending

- a general vindication of aggressive US foreign policy

- an increase in totalitarian-style surveillance of "suspect" groups in the US and elsewhere

No-once can doubt that these are unavoidable ideological results of yesterday's events. Bush's future as president may not be so certain. But how bitterly ironic it would be if these psychotic acts served ultimately to increase the popularity of a president whose sanity is itself open to question...

mugwump (12 Sep, 2001 10:34 a.m.):
i can see the americans 'teaming up' with the russians and anybody else who is willing and going into afghanistan...what is it Bush said..they won't distinguish between the terrorists and those who harbor them.
all the finger pointing is being directed at bin laden (who the americans armed by the way when he was fighting the russians in afghanistan) but they just don't know yet...this is really fucked up.

 

[jane]

plane outside pittsburgh

They were saying yesterday that a plane crashed 80 miles southeast of Pittsburgh, just north of the border with Maryland. A few minutes later they came back on and said that the US military had 'brought down' the last plane, the one en route to Camp David. Now they're denying it because it just looks like they shot down civilians to save the president's holiday home. Of course, that problem is partly due to the fact that we differentiate between 'civilians' and government officials, as if, in many situations, there is a difference between the value of our lives according to category.

Everyone I've talked to is more scared of Bush than ever. He just doesn't have the acuity to make any decisions, and his aides and cabinet are scary as hell. All they keep talking about is who we should bomb first.

He's going to push his missile shield, too, despite the fact that the hijackers used a plastic knife to hold up our domestic aircraft. They killed tens of thousands of people with picnic paraphernalia, and Bush thinks the next war will be fought in space.

 

[Stephen]

Yeap the real shame of yesterday is that of all the people in America, Bush was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

And now he's going to justify genocide by saying any country where the "folks" who committed this crime are, is a target.

And also wasn't the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Hugh Shelton the most fucking insane and scarey man alive?

 

[jane]

welcome to the warzone

There are currently F-16 bombers flying over our heads. They scared the hell out of me last night -- I kept thinking more shit was blowing up.

I can't help but think of the people who live like this every day, for whom this kind of environment is anything but alien.

The number of people who narrowly missed being there is unbelieveable, and as gratful as we are for our lives, we can't help but think of the people whose families can't say the same.

They have just arrested a suspect at the Westin Hotel in Copley Square in Boston (city centre). This is unofficial news.

please check http://www.indymedia.org for non-mainstream (i.e. non-Bushlicking) updates and analysis. It's a pretty good site.

 

[Anne OMalley]

welcome to the warzone

Very interesting site, that. Never saw it before - cheers.

jane (12 Sep, 2001 06:24 p.m.):
There are currently F-16 bombers flying over our heads. They scared the hell out of me last night -- I kept thinking more shit was blowing up.

I can't help but think of the people who live like this every day, for whom this kind of environment is anything but alien.

The number of people who narrowly missed being there is unbelieveable, and as gratful as we are for our lives, we can't help but think of the people whose families can't say the same.

They have just arrested a suspect at the Westin Hotel in Copley Square in Boston (city centre). This is unofficial news.

please check http://www.indymedia.org for non-mainstream (i.e. non-Bushlicking) updates and analysis. It's a pretty good site.

 

[pete]

Regarding flight 93, the plane that crashed in pittsburgh:

Businessman Thomas Burnett of San Ramon, California, called his wife, the family's priest told reporters. Mr Burnett, a 38-year-old father of three, told his wife Deena that one passenger already had been stabbed to death.

The Reverend Frank Colacicco described how Mr Burnett said: "I know we're all going to die - there's three of us who are going to do something about it."

Then he told his wife: "I love you, honey," and the call ended.

A senior U.S. intelligence official told MSNBC.com that mobile phone communications from Flight 93 indicate that three passengers overpowered the hijackers but were unable to maintain control of the plane.

The official said that U.S. counterintelligence experts are speculating that the hijackers intended to turn the plane around and crash it into another target but were thwarted by the passengers.

On that plane, a pilot secretly turned on the microphone, allowing passengers to hear everything that was being said by the terrorists a warning that may have prompted some passengers to attempt an act of heroism that presumably saved another national landmark.

Now compare that to this story:

An unnamed passenger on the same flight locked himself in one of the plane's lavatories and called 911.

Dispatchers who answered the phone said he repeatedly said: "We are being hijacked, we are being hijacked, this is not a hoax."

"He heard some sort of explosion and saw white smoke coming from the plane and we lost contact with him," said Westmoreland dispatcher Glenn Cramer.

I dunno. Initial reports said that the plane was shot down....maybe i watched too many X-Files episodes, but that hero story all sounds too convenient and too suspicious to me.

(quotes from http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/americas/newsid_1540000/1540158.stm)

 

[rodney]

"In the city of God there will be a great thunder, Two brothers torn apart by Chaos, while the fortress endures, the great leader will succumb, The third big war will begin when the big city is burning"
Nostradamus 654

 

[Monkey]

The Nostradamus quote is bullshit - he never said or wrote it.

I also heard one about people in "the city of the emerald isle" saving the day by leaving their "mechanical abacusses" to find a local ale merchant at 1 o' clock on the second day of the 9th month...

 

[Cormy]

Personally I'm fucking terrified.

Look at the support Bush & America are getting for their proposed course of actions. NATO has joined them, along with many other nations. This is pretty similar to how WW1 started -the system of alliances, a single act of aggresion, etc.

Plus the Stomach gig on Friday probably won't be on.

Let's go & get pissed.

 

[mugwump]

I haven't seen or heard anything else about the bombing of Kabul either...it's a bit weird that the rebels denied that they did it at first and then came out later saying that 'actually, we did do it'. I don't think Bush is coping very well...

 

[billygannon]

This is something that the west has never faced before. It's very unlikely that any country supports these guys. It is most likely some kind of Sufi Brotherhood with a large network. These brotherhoods are stateless, and if action is taken against a specific state things are going to get seriously millennial. America will not be able to do this on their own. They simply are not capable of doing so. I think it's going to have to be an international effort to find the people who did this and bring them to justice.

We have to get this right....the west has already aggrevated the Middle East enough through foreign policies that are ignorant and ill-judged.

I think everything is going to be different....

Or maybe it won't....

 

[mugwump]

read some articles from American Newspapers...found some of the following reactions/opinions...i hope they don't do anything ultra-extreme...i hope.

from the New York Times
Early public opinion polls show that Americans overwhelmingly favor a swift and forceful retaliation, even if it means casualties, a sentiment shared on Capitol Hill. "Americans know now that we are at war, and will make the sacrifices and show the resolve necessary to prevail," said Senator John McCain, Republican of Arizona. "I say to our enemies, we are coming. God may show you mercy. We will not."

from the Washington Post
In a videotaped address sent yesterday to all U.S. defense personnel, (Defense Secretary Donald H. ) Rumsfeld signaled the administration is planning an ambitious military action in response to the Tuesday attacks: "It is my duty as head of this department to tell you that more, much more will be asked of you in the weeks and months ahead. This is especially true of those who are in the field. We face powerful and terrible enemies, enemies we intend to vanquish, so that moments of horror like yesterday will be stopped."

"The American people would be willing to accept ground casualties, if we demonstrably win," he (retired Army Lt. Col. Ralph Peters, an author and military analyst) said. "It's time now to start talking about killing people. Terrorists -- you can't reason with them. All you can do is kill them."

from CNN
BRUSSELS, Belgium (CNN) -- NATO has unanimously declared the hijack attacks on the U.S. to be an assault against all member states.

Secretary-General George Robertson said the U.S. would receive support for military action from its 18 NATO partners if it is found the assaults were committed by foreign nationals.

It is the first time in 52 years that the alliance has invoked Article V -- the NATO self-defence charter that says if one member state is under attack all other member nations would defend it.

The decision opens the way for NATO military and logistic support to any U.S. retaliation.
It requires each ally to assist the country attacked "by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with other parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area."

 

[Pantone247]

mugwump (13 Sep, 2001 12:18 p.m.):
"Terrorists -- you can't reason with them. All you can do is kill them."

sounds like a dodgy bumper sticker slogan

 

[Luther Blissett]

Again the american government and certain members of the american public are only interested in 3 questions in relation to the awful attacks on tuesday
Who?, Where? and When?
When more importantly they should ask Why?
This excellent article trys to explain(not excuse)why people commit these acts
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=93798

 

[Keeror]

billygannon (13 Sep, 2001 11:25 a.m.):
It is most likely some kind of Sufi Brotherhood with a large network.

Dude, leave the Sufis alone!!
Fuck it, apart from the fact that there's already been anti-arab and muslim violence in the US before anyone knows *anything* for sure (not that knowledge of something excuses violence...) but the Sufis are a peace loving and freindly sect, with a ridiculous amount of incredible musicians in their ranks - check out Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan and all the qwaali singers, the Whirling Dervishes, and Hamid Drake (probably the most awesome drummer I've ever had the privilege to hear and a sweetheart to boot).

PS Santana have just finished their set at Woodstock on my TV - my god but they rocked. Serious grooves. Like, outta sight!

 

[silo]

writing from a net cafe in budapest... nothing in english... thanks for all this... this is scary.

http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_397678.html?menu=news.usterrorattacks