US Election 2020 (3 Viewers)

[Kermit McDermott]

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[Lili Marlene]

lol am listening to Vox's Ezra Klein hand-wringing anxiously about the Trump "coup". Fucking America man, everything is the end of the world at all times. Gimme Bernie bros over this crap.

 

[Space]

No Matter the Liberal Metric Chosen, the Bush/Cheney Administration Was Far Worse Than Trump.

Fantasies of a Trump-led fascist coup have redounded to the benefit of many -- especially those responsible for abuses far worse than those of the current president.

greenwald.substack.com

 

[ann post]

No Matter the Liberal Metric Chosen, the Bush/Cheney Administration Was Far Worse Than Trump.

Fantasies of a Trump-led fascist coup have redounded to the benefit of many -- especially those responsible for abuses far worse than those of the current president.

greenwald.substack.com

Not really agreeing with the stall they are setting out there.

Trump
A: made several signals to the proud boys
B: Condoned violence
C: Turned arms on his own people to hold up a bible

but

D: lost the will of the people.

It can be set aside as something that didn't happen because he lost the will of the people, but saying it was a lefty fantasy is just hand washing. If he had the will of the people on the day of the election and they supported him with violence would he have a

A: Condemned it
B: Rolled with it to stay in power.

DHS, early september:

White Supremacists, Domestic Terrorists Pose Biggest Threat Of âLethal Violenceâ This Election, DHS Assessment Finds

This follows last week’s whistleblower complaint from a Homeland Security official who says the DHS downplayed the threat of white supremacists.

www.forbes.com

Trump in debate, after the DHS report:

Why we should fear Trump’s call to ‘stand back and stand by’

By saying 'stand back and stand by,' Trump refused to condemn white supremacy.

forward.com

 

[Lili Marlene]

No Matter the Liberal Metric Chosen, the Bush/Cheney Administration Was Far Worse Than Trump.

Fantasies of a Trump-led fascist coup have redounded to the benefit of many -- especially those responsible for abuses far worse than those of the current president.

greenwald.substack.com

The motives for concocting this Wagnerian fantasy about coups, dictatorship, concentration camps and civil war are numerous. Politics is boring, and your life unspectacular, if it’s dedicated to a goal as banal and uninspiring as empowering a septuagenarian career-politician — the centrist-authoritarian author of the 1994 Crime Bill, the credit card industry’s most loyal servant, and key Iraq War advocate — along with his tough-on-crime prosecutor-running-mate who always seems as if she just left a meeting of the Aetna Board of Directors where massive hikes in deductibles were approved.

Glory is available only if one can convincingly herald oneself as a front-line warrior risking it all to courageously battle unprecedented evil and a Nazi-like menace.

Funnily enough this exact point was made on that Ezra Klein podcast I was listening to, that after the cold war politics got boring so people decided to go "extreme" right and left to make it interesting. The difference being that they actually believed it happened.

One argument i've heard about Biden that I find convincing is that he is genuinely in the center of the Dems, and proud of being that, proud of his own ability to work with anyone, so he will shift his policies depending on where the party goes. Like, he has no actual principles except a loyalty to the party and this can be traced back to his personal story where his entire life fell apart and the party became his life.

 

[pete]

Is this a coup? Home of the Coup-o-meter

Prevention is the best medicine: Get background on coups, how they happen in a democracy, and what we can do to stop one.

isthisacoup.com

 

[therealjohnny]

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[hugh]

Alternative view to Greenwald's - this is a well-considered strategy on the part of the Trump that is designed to overturn the "will of the people" ... Dems are sleepwalking into disaster by pretending it's not happening. This from a former Bernie speechwriter and Jacobin editor .... i.e. no "centrist dem".

Republicans aren't conceding â and Democrats are bringing a knife to a gun fight | David Sirota

The Republicans’ bid to overturn the election is a full-scale emergency – and yet the Democratic strategy seems to be to pretend it isn’t happening

www.theguardian.com

 

[Lili Marlene]

Yeah I like David Sirota, always getting himself cancelled.

I can't see any of the above happening myself but I guess few saw Trump winning in 2016 either. Maybe @ann post will get his long-promised Trump coup after all.

 

[Lili Marlene]

lol at Trump retweeting every person he can find saying they won't watch Fox News anymore and then following it up with this

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[ann post]

Yeah I like David Sirota, always getting himself cancelled.

I can't see any of the above happening myself but I guess few saw Trump winning in 2016 either. Maybe @ann post will get his long-promised Trump coup after all.

It's totally testing my self appointed ability to read events in this way. I should probably repeat for the sake of not being cancelled that this is what i see happening, not what i want to happen.

My current read is

trump is not swinging in the dark legally, he's just using it as an avenue to repeat something to the point that people believe it.
republicans while 'distancing' from the donald are only in small numbers conceding the election publicly.
dems won the numbers by not losing their fucking head at everything, like a lot of the Americans i know actually are day to day, under immense pressure i might add too. even if they are 100% sure this play is going to turn the election, they cannot be seen to validate it publicly by giving it the time of day.
my suspicion that the trump supporters leaving in droves will be shouted back in droves by these legal wranglings over a week or two, if 1-3 cases of the many return the slightest positive result that'll be enough for them.
Donald is doing the classic create chaos as mode to weaken the opposition move and it'll pay him much better than any conceding a loss shit ever will.
i have gloves on I can't really use the shift key.

 

[Lili Marlene]

I think it's something similar to the Republican strategy towards Roe Vs. Wade - hundreds and hundreds of lawsuits, year after year, each one kicked back but very, very occasionally they get some win or concession.

Sirota is right that Republicans don't care about the law or norms, but they know that the Dems really, really do, so they use this to their advantage. My prediction is nothing will come of this but from their point of view it's worth a shot.

If Trump himself has been very cleverly giving the impression that he would rather make bitchy comments about Fox News on Twitter but actually behind the scenes has been working up his fascist mastermind plan to rule America as dictator-in-chief (controlled by Putin) then fair play to him, he has definitely fooled me.

 

[flashback]

If Trump himself has actually been very cleverly giving the impression that he would rather make bitchy comments about Fox News on Twitter but actually behind the scenes has been working up his fascist mastermind plan to rule America as dictator-in-chief (controlled by Putin) then fair play to him, he has definitely fooled me.

I don't think the coup bit is going to happen. I think Trump is doing the same thing he's always done: create a scene to distract people from paying attention to something he doesn't want them paying attention to.

He's just lost an election. He's miffed about that, so he creates a shitstorm somewhere else. If he can create some kind of scary vision of coups, that's a perfect distraction. If he can grift more people out of money as part of the deal (which is what he's now doing), that's even better.

He's a bit like a slight of hand magician, he wants to be able to direct your attention away from where the little foam ball is getting palmed.

edit - for some reason I have a quote inside a quote... hmm

 

[flashback]

What's also nice and predictable is he will wipe his shit on every one of his enablers, if he feels that will aid his cause.

He's trying to hurt Fox now, which is lovely. I think it's pretty clear that the people that get in bed with him also know they are getting in on the grift, and they need to get as much as they can as quickly as they can, because they will get trashed and shit upon the moment they outlive their usefulness.

That includes all of his goblins, the Republican Party, Rudy, Barr... it will be interesting to see if he throws his own children under the bus. I think even the GOP would like to see that Kushner creature getting the wipe down from Trump's shitty hand.

 

[pete]

I haven't read anything on this but personally I think they (Trump's circle) will adopt a strategy of firing out as many lawsuits as fast as possible to see if anything sticks - he only needs to be lucky once, as they used to say, and if any of these cases somehow makes it in front of the Supreme Court then it's quite possible they'll roll over for him (or rather, for "The Right").

 

[hugh]

He has to be lucky a whole bunch of times (I.e. more than one state) though.

I must say, I’m thoroughly enjoying watching the Trump/Murdoch fall out. Has particular resonance as I’m finally getting around to watching Succession.

 

[flashback]

He has to be lucky a whole bunch of times (I.e. more than one state) though.

I must say, I’m thoroughly enjoying watching the Trump/Murdoch fall out. Has particular resonance as I’m finally getting around to watching Succession.

Yeah... true. But if they get anything at all to stick they'll be screaming it from the rooftops as vindication for the foreseeable future.

Although realistically you're dealing with the likes of Flat-Earthers and anti-vaxxers, having absolutely no proof for their argument won't get in their way, they'll never let this die regardless.

 

[ann post]

If Trump himself has been very cleverly giving the impression that he would rather make bitchy comments about Fox News on Twitter but actually behind the scenes has been working up his fascist mastermind plan to rule America as dictator-in-chief (controlled by Putin) then fair play to him, he has definitely fooled me.

Oh no thats it happening in plain view. Cast doubt on the elections, cast doubt on fox, cast doubt on legality, its his MO.

To quote Mr Miyagi (sic)

Once there is one doubt, there can be no certainty

 

[Lili Marlene]

Oh no thats it happening in plain view. Cast doubt on the elections, cast doubt on fox, cast doubt on legality, its his MO.

To quote Mr Miyagi (sic)

No he's just thick. He exists in a world of pure reaction based on the situation around him and has nothing nothing planned that is not already in visual range. Everyone scrambles around him trying to read the tea leaves but there's nothing there and there never has been.

He's very good at it though, he absorbs the mood of the nation and then reflects it back. Similar to how Kanye West makes music imho. Living Zeitgeists but don't ask them to plan ahead.

 

[Lili Marlene]

Or at least that's my theory, christ it's like being in the last few weeks of school and Trump is the loudest person in class.