savage (1 Viewer)

[тхеодоре кацзынски]

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good film this,the ending is as the title suggests.worth a look though.

 

[washingcattle]

One question. Do we really need another film about how shit and violent Dublin is ?

Is there any imagination out there ? I mean I haven't seen it it's probably great but will there ever be an Irish Paris Texas or Straight Story or Cinema Paridiso ? I just watched Dogtooth. It's the first greek movie I've ever watched it's brilliant and extremely original. Even the trailer for Savage mentions Taxi Driver so I mean it's not like we've never seen this type of thing before. Off hand the only really original Irish movie I can think of is The Butcher Boy but that was a novel first so I don't know if it counts. Can anyone point me in the right direction here?

On the other hand the documentaries Colony (which I've seen and is excellent) and His and Hers are supposedly excellent so I'm not just trying to rag on the Irish film industry here.

 

[Scientician 0.8]

I Went Down was fairly amazing too. Adam and Paul too. The Butcher Boy is amazing, and I love Breakfast On Pluto even though it's not quite as good. Ok so there are four good Irish films. Btw His and Hers is excellent.

 

[washingcattle]

Yes I went down is great. Adam and Paul falls into that genre of filmmaking that I'm talking about. I mean I've lived in Dublin my whole life I quite like it here. I have a pretty decent life here but when I watch an Irish movie or tv show it's always the same "hell on earth" kind of story. Just saying that our output of films and tv makes us seem like either simpletons, junkies, gangsters or savages I mean 100 years ago we were redefining the written word. What happened ?

 

[Scientician 0.8]

The Anglo-Irish Ascendancy was destroyed is what happened. Ochón, ochón.

Adam and Paul works in that genre in a way other efforts just don't. Without getting too wanky about it, it's either hard for middleclass people to tell middleclass stories, or they're just reluctant to, or they think they'll be boring, so they fetishise junkies, gangsters etc.

It's interesting that two of the most interesting "Irish" films in recent years had British directors, Hunger and The Wind That Shakes The Barley.

Did you ever see Accelerator? It's not perfect but it's quite an interesting film.

 

[Mormon Nailer]

One question. Do we really need another film about how shit and violent Dublin is ?

Is there any imagination out there ? I mean I haven't seen it it's probably great but will there ever be an Irish Paris Texas or Straight Story or Cinema Paridiso ? I just watched Dogtooth. It's the first greek movie I've ever watched it's brilliant and extremely original. Even the trailer for Savage mentions Taxi Driver so I mean it's not like we've never seen this type of thing before. Off hand the only really original Irish movie I can think of is The Butcher Boy but that was a novel first so I don't know if it counts. Can anyone point me in the right direction here?

On the other hand the documentaries Colony (which I've seen and is excellent) and His and Hers are supposedly excellent so I'm not just trying to rag on the Irish film industry here.

The Boy From Mercury.

 

[washingcattle]

The Anglo-Irish Ascendancy was destroyed is what happened. Ochón, ochón.

Adam and Paul works in that genre in a way other efforts just don't. Without getting too wanky about it, it's either hard for middleclass people to tell middleclass stories, or they're just reluctant to, or they think they'll be boring, so they fetishise junkies, gangsters etc.

It's interesting that two of the most interesting "Irish" films in recent years had British directors, Hunger and The Wind That Shakes The Barley.

Did you ever see Accelerator? It's not perfect but it's quite an interesting film.

Cinema Paradiso and Paris Texas are hardly middle class.

 

[IFF]

I saw Savage at the Dublin film festival in february. it was ok, had it moments.

 

[Cormcolash]

Savage? Savage.

 

[evil bandit]

This flick is great although it might fail into your grainy, hand held, digital filmed, silver tinged, shot in Dublin bracket

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[Scientician 0.8]

Cinema Paradiso and Paris Texas are hardly middle class.

They're hardly Irish either.

 

[washingcattle]

They're hardly Irish either.

Well hang on a second here is the point class, nationality, or ability to make tell a tale ? By which I mean why are Irish films stuck in a ridiculous world where everything working class = hardship ? I'm working class I have an imagination i have a past, hopes, aspirations, I'm not defined by violence or neglect. I have nice tales to tell. So do most. Why must my cinematic potrayal be confined to "bad shit happening in underclass areas" ? African Americans have basically the same question why must "we"(I use the term very loosely) be portrayed soley as struggling and nothing but ? Why are love stories almost always middle class and white ? I'm sorry I (again) refer back to a thesis I wrote on the middle class as the basis of all blank canvases (i.e middle class whites can be involved in aliens, romance, espionage, betrayals, friendships, hatered, thrillers, comedies etc etc all the cinematic cannon) while working class people seem to simply exist (cinematically) to explore the existance of the working class ? I don't mean to be beligerant I just want to hear peoples opinions.

Cinema Paridiso for example is a working class lad growing up transfixed by cinema. Boil it down that's what it is. I haven't seen Savage but boil it down to it's raw elements it seems to be another tale of scangers from the wrong side of the tracks being total scum, violence begets violence etc etc, and this seems to be the cinematic depiction of Dublin.

Where's the lad from Tallaght meets lady from Finglas happy ever after, no illigitimate children, no money lenders, no gangsters, no "bad shit in da hood" no stereotypes film ? I mean is that so hard to believe ?

Tell me. I want to know. Honestly I'm not trying to be a beligerant sap here I'm actually curious.

 

[Scientician 0.8]

I'm actually curious about this whole thing too. Would the Barrytown Trilogy count? What about Once?

Well hang on a second here is the point class, nationality, or ability to make tell a tale ?

These things are all bound together, class in Ireland is different from class in other anglophone countries, let alone the rest of the world for one. With regard to the local context, I would hazard a guess that most people involved in film making in this country are middle class, including most of the writers and actors. I'm sure there are exceptions though. Ireland is also a small country populationwise so doesn't actually produce all that many films so you're only ever gonna have a handful that will be any good. You could argue that not enough tales of all kinds are made into films here but that's the nature of a small country. I don't know how much money is available to Irish film makers to tell their stories either, it seems that documentary film making is more suited to this country. Ability to tell a tale can also be impeded by the quality of acting, there is some shockingly shit acting in a lot of Irish films, even when the story is passable. With regard to fetishisation of poverty/misery, it happens a lot in British and American cinema too. I get your point about the blank canvas. BTW is there anywhere online I can read that thesis?

I'm working class I have an imagination i have a past, hopes, aspirations, I'm not defined by violence or neglect. I have nice tales to tell. So do most.

Then write a script, seriously.

 

[Scientician 0.8]

I just found this curio while looking up Irish films.

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[washingcattle]

I'm actually curious about this whole thing too. Would the Barrytown Trilogy count? What about Once?

These things are all bound together, class in Ireland is different from class in other anglophone countries, let alone the rest of the world for one. With regard to the local context, I would hazard a guess that most people involved in film making in this country are middle class, including most of the writers and actors. I'm sure there are exceptions though. Ireland is also a small country populationwise so doesn't actually produce all that many films so you're only ever gonna have a handful that will be any good. You could argue that not enough tales of all kinds are made into films here but that's the nature of a small country. I don't know how much money is available to Irish film makers to tell their stories either, it seems that documentary film making is more suited to this country. Ability to tell a tale can also be impeded by the quality of acting, there is some shockingly shit acting in a lot of Irish films, even when the story is passable. With regard to fetishisation of poverty/misery, it happens a lot in British and American cinema too. I get your point about the blank canvas. BTW is there anywhere online I can read that thesis?

Then write a script, seriously.

I might try during Script Frenzy.
http://www.scriptfrenzy.org/

You can't read it on line (it's not that great anyway.)

Documentary could indeed be our niche. I guess it is a question of population and finance. I'll make a short Dogma film sometime. It'll be totally shit.

 

[ann post]

Adam and Paul too.

in all fairness, adam and paul is shit. woeful shit.

 

[Scientician 0.8]

I don't agree, it has some clunky enough parts, i didn't like the scene with the Bulgarian but I liked it overall especially the late Tom Murphy's performance.

 

[ann post]

i might have to watch it again just to piece together an 'everything thats wrong with it post'.

that savage trailer is lacking in leprechauns, sweeping helicopter shots of rural areas, guinness and shillelii, i cant imagine what they were thinking.

 

[Lili Marlene]

Why are love stories almost always middle class and white ? I'm sorry I (again) refer back to a thesis I wrote on the middle class as the basis of all blank canvases (i.e middle class whites can be involved in aliens, romance, espionage, betrayals, friendships, hatered, thrillers, comedies etc etc all the cinematic cannon) while working class people seem to simply exist (cinematically) to explore the existance of the working class ? I don't mean to be beligerant I just want to hear peoples opinions.

Well.... the generic middle class problems tend to be fairly boring stuff do they not? No one wants to come home from a hard day at the office to watch a film about a hard day at the office. So you either make a film about something else that happens to them (" aliens, romance, espionage, betrayals, friendships, hatered, thrillers, comedies") or you explore how their oh so normal life is in fact messed up BENEATH THE SURFACE, (twin peaks, american beauty, take that american dream etc. etc.).

The generic working class problems on the other hand tend not to be so boring. Lack of money can pretty much lead to wherever you want as a writer. This has been the case from day one in teh arts once people started writing about working class (off the top of my head, think someone like Dickens), it's not a recent thing.

Both types of story have their clichés used by lazy writers.


erm, anyway, trying to think of recent-ish Irish movies, isn't the main character in Breakfast on Pluto working-class? That's got more than generic working class problems? I can't remember 100%, I haven't seen it since it was first released.

Or even Into the West for that matter.....

 

[тхеодоре кацзынски]

i might have to watch it again just to piece together an 'everything thats wrong with it post'.

go for it,its such a bad fillum.