Riot in O'Connell st. (1 Viewer)

[clonan attack]

just planned by people who use republicanism as an excuse for this sort of nonsense and latch onto republican stuff.

and with that it was confirmed that nobody on thumped believed the violence to be a political.Group hug

 

[classic seanc]

Yay!!!!!!!!

This thread is a real riot

 

[Space]

That certainly isn't how he told it.

He believed the attack was planned. Lots of journalists were attacked.

I'm not saying Charlie getting attacked or looting, petrol bombs and golf balls etc. were planned by members of RSF, just planned by people who use republicanism as an excuse for this sort of nonsense and latch onto republican stuff.

So are "people who use republicanism as an excuse for this sort of nonsense" actually republicans or just scumbags wanting to riot because they're bored/angry/(insert your own emotion) etc?

 

[pete]

As for trying to get to Leinster House - why else would they be trying to go up Nassau street?

Apparently some of the Love Ulster attendee's were bussed across to Kildare Street, where they played a few tunes & handed in a letter etc. Meanwhile, the riot squad were forcing people down O'Connell Street, over the bridge & in the same general direction....

 

[Antrophe]

Wonderful the way a seemingly otherwise "enlightened" forum can suddenly completely lose track of itself and pour scorn on the "scum" of Irish society. It really is interesting the sort of langauge some of you lot are using, and I'm not coming from some fluffy PC angle on this at all, it just reeks of a real fear of social tension, of what happens when working class youths come into the city centre for a political protest that doesn't carry the same cudos as some spectacle of an "anti-capitalist" event. The distinction being drawn up between the "real" and , I suppose, "fake" protesters is equally laughable. Where exactly does one check the authenticity of their political reasoning in attending a protest? That people engage in "violent" action is thrown up usually to denote "fake" protesters - so I suppose those suburban kids involved in car burning in Paris were disengenious as well?

Political action takes many forms, some of that involves burning, looting etc. I think Sean O'Casey quiped that the real revolutionaries weren't in the GPO in 1916, they were across the road looting Clerys. Its interesting that BMW's were burnt out, and that symbols of wealth like banks/McDonalds were done on, even the PDs windows were smashed. Republicanism is without doubt the most entrenched and organic radical political movement in the country, what anarchism is to Barcelona - republicanism is to Ireland. Its not a surprise at all that the republican tradtion is then what working class youths latch onto as an expression of their opposition to state authority and power, it is the closest formulae to hand.

It is the slogans of that movement that are scrawled on estate walls, school desks and so on. Of course all of this is changing as other political movements become more pronounced, albeit amidst a general sharp decline of the organised left. What happened today was a total fuck up, its exactly what the Orange Order wanted to happen. But it should be looked at as an opportunity for a ruckus with the police being taken and used. It happens every few years, and in minor ways all the time. Its where a particular protest like today moves towards a social protest - attacks on the authorities that wreck petty bullying all over disadvantaged communities and shit all over working class youth/ "scum." It happened in Edinburgh during the G8, youths orchastrated a rout of the cops in Cherry Orchard a few years back in and every anti-capitalism demo I've been on in this city has had some element of this "scum" among the participants, usually the most vocal and militant as on Mayday. Who are we to delineate the barriers of who can take political action?

Its intolerable this liberal multicultural bullshit of "oh can't we all live together?" No - the Orange Order are an organised expression of sectarianism, they were set up to sow division in the North after the 1798 Rebellion and the success of the United Irishmen in eroding religious difference, their traditions are recent and artificial - given accelerated growth after the setting up of the Northern statelet and accentuated by the troubles. This sort of muticulturalism is completely stupid, its the sort of stuff that blindly skips over all sorts of abuses from the oppression of Muslin women within the west to patronisingly taking racialist views of minorities. In this case it assumes the Orange Order is an expression of the traditions of all protestants.

http://struggle.ws/wsm/orangeorder.html
http://struggle.ws/ws99/ws57_order.html

 

[Vinnie]

The Orange Order was set up in 1795, 3 years before the 1798 rebellion which was an unmitigated failure. If you're gonna preach at least get your facts straight.

No - the Orange Order are an organised expression of sectarianism, they were set up to sow division in the North after the 1798 Rebellion and the success of the United Irishmen in eroding religious difference, their traditions are recent and artificial - given accelerated growth after the setting up of the Northern statelet and accentuated by the troubles. This sort of muticulturalism is completely stupid, its the sort of stuff that blindly skips over all sorts of abuses from the oppression of Muslin women within the west to patronisingly taking racialist views of minorities. In this case it assumes the Orange Order is an expression of the traditions of all protestants.

http://struggle.ws/wsm/orangeorder.html
http://struggle.ws/ws99/ws57_order.html

 

[Dixer]

Wonderful the way a seemingly otherwise "enlightened" forum can suddenly completely lose track of itself and pour scorn on the "scum" of Irish society. [/URL]

So kicking over street architecture such as bins and setting fire to skips/cars etc, attacking a journalist because he's 'an orange bastard', these are all valid forms of protest?

 

[classic seanc]

Wonderful the way a seemingly otherwise "enlightened" forum can suddenly completely lose track of itself and pour scorn on the "scum" of Irish society. It really is interesting the sort of langauge some of you lot are using, and I'm not coming from some fluffy PC angle on this at all, it just reeks of a real fear of social tension, of what happens when working class youths come into the city centre for a political protest that doesn't carry the same cudos as some spectacle of an "anti-capitalist" event. The distinction being drawn up between the "real" and , I suppose, "fake" protesters is equally laughable. Where exactly does one check the authenticity of their political reasoning in attending a protest? That people engage in "violent" action is thrown up usually to denote "fake" protesters - so I suppose those suburban kids involved in car burning in Paris were disengenious as well?

Political action takes many forms, some of that involves burning, looting etc. I think Sean O'Casey quiped that the real revolutionaries weren't in the GPO in 1916, they were across the road looting Clerys. Its interesting that BMW's were burnt out, and that symbols of wealth like banks/McDonalds were done on, even the PDs windows were smashed. Republicanism is without doubt the most entrenched and organic radical political movement in the country, what anarchism is to Barcelona - republicanism is to Ireland. Its not a surprise at all that the republican tradtion is then what working class youths latch onto as an expression of their opposition to state authority and power, it is the closest formulae to hand.

It is the slogans of that movement that are scrawled on estate walls, school desks and so on. Of course all of this is changing as other political movements become more pronounced, albeit amidst a general sharp decline of the organised left. What happened today was a total fuck up, its exactly what the Orange Order wanted to happen. But it should be looked at as an opportunity for a ruckus with the police being taken and used. It happens every few years, and in minor ways all the time. Its where a particular protest like today moves towards a social protest - attacks on the authorities that wreck petty bullying all over disadvantaged communities and shit all over working class youth/ "scum." It happened in Edinburgh during the G8, youths orchastrated a rout of the cops in Cherry Orchard a few years back in and every anti-capitalism demo I've been on in this city has had some element of this "scum" among the participants, usually the most vocal and militant as on Mayday. Who are we to delineate the barriers of who can take political action?

Its intolerable this liberal multicultural bullshit of "oh can't we all live together?" No - the Orange Order are an organised expression of sectarianism, they were set up to sow division in the North after the 1798 Rebellion and the success of the United Irishmen in eroding religious difference, their traditions are recent and artificial - given accelerated growth after the setting up of the Northern statelet and accentuated by the troubles. This sort of muticulturalism is completely stupid, its the sort of stuff that blindly skips over all sorts of abuses from the oppression of Muslin women within the west to patronisingly taking racialist views of minorities. In this case it assumes the Orange Order is an expression of the traditions of all protestants.

http://struggle.ws/wsm/orangeorder.html
http://struggle.ws/ws99/ws57_order.html

Edit: I wrote a load of shite there, I'll just leave my point as this:

These guys are scum. I reserve the right to be pissed off with people who try to destroy the city I live in.

 

[Antrophe]

Instead of asking me to bray either "yes" or "no" to your questioning of how protest manifests itself maybe you can tell me what exactly valididates a protest?

The attack on Charlie Bird that you refer to is pretty abhorent. The attacks on other elements of the media such as camera men is understandable, and seems to be an increasing trend at events like this, where the media really out themselves in the middle of it.

At the Navan road as the pushing bloc marched into the police line on Mayday 2004, it had to force its way through cameras as all these idiots stood right in front of the cops looking for the best photo/footage. Equally, footage can be used as evidence, hence why people attempt to drive the media off events where wanton criminal damage is being carried out and the public order act is being pissed all over.

 

[Vinnie]

So it's okay for a criminal to attack the media because their evidence could incriminate the criminal? I see where you're coming from.

At the Navan road as the pushing bloc marched into the police line on Mayday 2004, it had to force its way through cameras as all these idiots stood right in front of the cops looking for the best photo/footage. Equally, footage can be used as evidence, hence why people attempt to drive the media off events where wanton criminal damage is being carried out and the public order act is being pissed all over.

 

[Antrophe]

As I said earlier - I can't be arsed braying "yes" or "no" to questions on a list of cited incidents.

 

[Vinnie]

In other words, you refuse to substaniate any of your arguments.

As I said earlier - I can't be arsed braying "yes" or "no" to questions on a list of cited incidents.

 

[Shine]

Apparently some of the Love Ulster attendee's were bussed across to Kildare Street, where they played a few tunes & handed in a letter etc. Meanwhile, the riot squad were forcing people down O'Connell Street, over the bridge & in the same general direction....

linky linky

 

[1000smurfs]

Instead of asking me to bray either "yes" or "no" to your questioning of how protest manifests itself maybe you can tell me what exactly valididates a protest?

non violent dissent. That'd do it for me. It seems to me you've been
trying to say that some elements who rioted/looted today were
motivated by some sort of opression, social inequality. You compared it to the paris riots. Are you sure you are not fantasising a bit that they believe themselves to be part of some workers revolution that ye guys wish for?
I would agree that there is a correlation with social disadvantage and looting, but it wouldn't fall under the category of a 'political protest'. If it was a really serious problem if would flare up of its own accord.

 

[classic seanc]

http://static.flickr.com/41/104334590_8f16ac6ebe.jpg?v=0


That is a scary fuckin image.




Especially the ringleader woman at the front.

 

[Dixer]

Instead of asking me to bray either "yes" or "no" to your questioning of how protest manifests itself maybe you can tell me what exactly valididates a protest?

The attack on Charlie Bird that you refer to is pretty abhorent. The attacks on other elements of the media such as camera men is understandable, and seems to be an increasing trend at events like this, where the media really out themselves in the middle of it.

At the Navan road as the pushing bloc marched into the police line on Mayday 2004, it had to force its way through cameras as all these idiots stood right in front of the cops looking for the best photo/footage. Equally, footage can be used as evidence, hence why people attempt to drive the media off events where wanton criminal damage is being carried out and the public order act is being pissed all over.

What happened was completely indefensible and for you to say that "The attacks on other elements of the media such as camera men is understandable" is amazing. By saying that yr pre-supposing the legitimacy of the violence. Surely intensive coberage by all strands of the media would be apositive if the perpetrators actually had a message to convey? And then you go on to describe the damage as 'wanton' and 'criminal'?
Maybe someone who throws petrol bombs at poilice over an event such as this is just a scoblerone?

 

[nlgbbbblth]

if heads like spiritualtramp can see a celtic jersey and equate it with republicanism then the average joe is going to think the same thing when Chralie Bird tells him so.

The Celtic jersey has constantly been hijacked by people anxious to convey their republican beliefs. It's a badge. Go to a Wolfe Tones gig and your'll see loads. Ask someone who is wearing one and singing along to 'Ooh Ah Up The Ra' if they consider themselves a republican. The chances are they'll say they do.

As I stated earlier those who do so are oblivious to the inherent contradiction of their actions.

Or else they're just thick.

 

[nlgbbbblth]

Wonderful the way a seemingly otherwise "enlightened" forum can suddenly completely lose track of itself and pour scorn on the "scum" of Irish society. It really is interesting the sort of langauge some of you lot are using, and I'm not coming from some fluffy PC angle on this at all, it just reeks of a real fear of social tension, of what happens when working class youths come into the city centre for a political protest that doesn't carry the same cudos as some spectacle of an "anti-capitalist" event. The distinction being drawn up between the "real" and , I suppose, "fake" protesters is equally laughable. Where exactly does one check the authenticity of their political reasoning in attending a protest? That people engage in "violent" action is thrown up usually to denote "fake" protesters - so I suppose those suburban kids involved in car burning in Paris were disengenious as well?

If today's rioters were middle class kids clad in school rugby shirts would you feel obliged to defend them?

 

[Antrophe]

If today's rioters were middle class kids clad in school rugby shirts would you feel obliged to defend them?

I presume they're trapped on an island? So only if Papa Smurf has taken their equality tokens.

What happened was completely indefensible and for you to say that "The attacks on other elements of the media such as camera men is understandable" is amazing. By saying that yr pre-supposing the legitimacy of the violence.

Stop putting words in my mouth. What I am saying is that the attack on the media is not irrational. It is reasoned. It is understandable. We can comprehend it. The reason today was that the presence of media cameras can record footage that could lead to convictions of participants. Why the media are targetted is thus understandable on this premise.

There's some interesting comments over on Indymedia about how the riot police waded in first, they're contradicted further down.

 

[Shine]

Emmmm...

Ok - is there anyone here that when they first heard about this parade being planned didn't think "jaysus - there's going to be riots" ?

Now don't start spouting me democratic rights to bang drums down O'Connell st. - it's O'Connell St. FFS - you can't be doing that - or at least you can't be doing it without expecting the kids to come out and riot.

Talk of "scumbags" and all this holier than thou stuff depresses me. I'm not going to be able to intelectualise it like Antrope there but COME ON. They're kids with energy and anger and suddenly they have something to direct it upon. Something blatant like a parade - and a fuckload of guards. Of course it was going to kick off.

*Heavy sigh* The politics of it doesn't interest me too much to be honest - the sectarian politics that is - green vs orange or whatever. But the other type of politics does - civilized vs scum. What's the difference between you and some apolitical kid in a celtic jersey tossing a (convenient) paving stone? Are you genetically superiour? Maybe you grew up in a nicer area? better education? you are better able to control your anger? These kids are angry because the world is fucked up, they are in a better position than you to see how fucked up it is. They don't place as much value as you do on property and the beloved garda siochána. Yeah. Scummmm.

Michael writes :
Dear Diary,
Ah - a great day today- the riot on the building site went off as predicted. There's masses of confusion. The green boyos are fighting the orange boyos. The shinners are fighting the republican shinners. The shinners are fighing the scumbags. The consumers are fighting the orange boyos and the shinners and the scumbags. Mainly the scumbags. Meanwhile no-one's paying aany attention to me! Whoopee! The time is ripe for a bill or two to clamp down on their scummy civil liberties, increase police power... are my asbos through yet?.. Laws, more laws. Diversions, spin, sheep and more laws. Yay for me!

or something. Fuckit. You don't create ethical-shopping, property respecting peace-loving model citizens by legislating against them and alienating them whatever way you can. I can't remember what my point was. I hate this government crap. I'm sorry i can't offer any immediate solutions. I don't condone violence, and i would never riot. But big outcrys and de-humanization of "scumbags" is not the way to go. Better question those in power. Question why McDowell let this go ahead in the first place... the man may be many things but surely he is not stupid?