Riot in O'Connell st. (2 Viewers)

[ICUH8N]

You know, what this thread has really underlined for me, is the crucial necessity of some sort of compulsory class on rhetoric before people are allowed to use the internet for anything other than looking at tits and/or gossip. I know that it doesn't apply to some of you, but lack of internal consistency, the outright contradictions, the practically-complete list of logical fallacies (some real gems) on display in this thread -- truly amazing.

 

[broken arm]

Re: SCUM

FUCKING MADE UP, BULLSHIT, LEFT WING, MIDDLE CLASS, IMAGINED AGENDA

you should make that your signature

 

[ICUH8N]

Re: SCUM

1) an idiot
2) has a bad temper
3) too much time on his hands
4) a drinking habbit
5) he is an idiot
He is too stupid to hold any political opinions, he is not angry at being poor he may even be paid well, he is still scum

You know, you're listing a lot of social problems here, but I think you have it backwards, or at the very least, you're ignoring their causes (essentially: you're only telling half the story)

They themselves are not the cause of people on O'Connell street breaking shit and burning cars. They're effects, further back on the same timeline. You've just decided that it starts at "Unemployed, proclivity for substance abuse, disposition toward casual violence"

That's incorrect at best, and disingenuous at worst. I'm going to sit on the fence here and say you're just not smart enough to have thought your argument through thoroughly, and now you're gonna get served, and not by people who are just outraged at your strong language, or by silly wannabe-anarchists, but by people who know what they're talking about, comparatively.

//edited for clarity

 

[classic seanc]

You know, what this thread has really underlined for me, is the crucial necessity of some sort of compulsory class on rhetoric before people are allowed to use the internet for anything other than looking at tits and/or gossip.

I agree whole heartedly. I have NO idea what working class/middle class is supposed to mean, It always sounds like pointless rhetoric to me. It might have made sense during the industrial revolution, but not today.
Of course, if someone wants to guide me to a link that explains this stuff (or explain it yourself) then by all means do. Rep and thank you's shall be forthcoming

Like, whoever sent me this derepping has the wrong end of the seanc stick:

Try posting sober next time and you'll cease to come across like the spoilt little UCD brat you are.

That almost sounds like someone generalising "middle class" types, and being pissed off with me as an apparently middle class type for supposedly generalising "working class" types. How odd.

Of course, I don't go to UCD. I'm neither spoilt nor a brat.
I won't post drunk in future, cuz it just seems to confuse people



Anyway, give me an explanation of class structures please

 

[broken arm]

Anyway, give me an explanation of class structures please

 

[shitepipe]

Re: SCUM

my two eurocents:

the fact is, in ireland (and the british isles) there is a violent element to society, the likes of which i havent seen in other countries. people who just want to fuck shit up, wherever and whenever it suits them. i'm talking random violence and intimidation as opposed to muggings or whatever. i've lived in amsterdam for 5 years now and not ONCE have i even seen a fight on the street or felt threatened (but funnily enough i've seen loads of riots).

i dont care what you call them, what they wear or what 'class' they are, but they exist. we all know them, we've all had run ins with them. It appears to me from the evidence i've seen that these are the people on the front line of the riot last week (although they may not have instigated it). In the same way there is no political context to kicking the shit out of someone outside a chipper after a nightclub, there is no political context to their rioting (although i agree that smashing a shop window and looting can be a political act).

that said, what is the root of this problem? unemployment? booze? boredom? fucked if i know, although i've noticed a few interesting differences in the way kids behave here and in ireland.
say its snowing. in ireland you'd be walking down the streets getting pelted by kids throwing snowballs (and not 'scumbags' or whatever just kids, and we all did it when we were kids, and eh, actually probably still do it now). ya, no big deal and its a good laugh, but its still a pain in the ass and can be intimidating.
or when you're walking through a gang of kids just hanging out or playing football. you'd always expect a load of smart remarks and maybe someone belting the ball at you. again no big deal, but it definitely can be intimidating.
Two small daily life situations that i've never experienced here, and its really noticable because when you're in these situations you get used to bracing yourself for the inevitable- and then it doesnt happen. While i dont want to draw too many conclusions from such small examples it it seems there is a different level of respect for other people- that can be seen from a young age, and its not limited to different classes in society. On the other hand, you could also say these are characteristics of being irish- smart arsed rascals that we are.

Just a thought..

 

[Dixer]

Funniest thing I've seen since 'Lazy Sunday'.

 

[shitepipe]

that guy is way too fat too go the whole hog. and the guy in the pink knows it...

 

[niallmc]

Re: SCUM

I've been holding back on making this thread bigger but so much of what you stated below (or is it above) is plainly wrong. Just look at the list of schools in the thread what school did you you go to to see that most folk on thumped don't come from a working class background. Middle class people perpetuate the myth of the 'scummer' as you say. Just like other lables are thrown around with such abandon. The riot sprang from anger and opportunistic people got involved for the 'buzz'. Labelling people with such ease will never fix the problem.

Lets talk about scummers..
I come from a working class background as I'm guessing most people do on thumped (law of averages).
Working class people know scum and hate them with a real passion. Most of the cunts rioting were just scummers, plain and simple.
Middle class people tend to deny the existence of the scummer..in order not to seem snobby or predjuice
but we all know them so lets tune into reality.
The common or garden scummer uniform:
May include
1: tracksuit,
2 white runners,
3. large amounts of jewelery,
4. tight hair cuts often brushed forward.
Dont get me wrong know plenty of sound people who dress like this but we all know thats the scummer uniform.
I have pictures from the middle of the riot, you'll see every cunt with brick in his hand fits this stereotype pretty nicely.
I have noticed this uniform has changed very little in the last 20 years or so and is similar in england and wales, I dont know why,
common or garden scummer behavior
1.If you annoy him, he will kick the bollix out of you,
2.If you look too different from him, he will kick the bollix out of you,
3.If he suspects you may be a homosexual, he will kick the bollix out of you.
4.If you are black and in the wrong place at the wrong time he will kick the bollix out of you.
5.If you are a studenty/marxist/anarchist/middle class/poncey type (and from your posts I suspect some of you may be..sorry!) he will kick the bollix out of you
6.If you look at him funny him he will kick the bollix out of you.
He does it cos he is
1) an idiot
2) has a bad temper
3) too much time on his hands
4) a drinking habbit
5) he is an idiot
He is too stupid to hold any political opinions, he is not angry at being poor he may even be paid well, he is still scum
and he will fight at the drop of a hat, especially when drunk.
He does not need a FUCKING MADE UP, BULLSHIT, LEFT WING, MIDDLE CLASS, IMAGINED AGENDA to do it.
Like I say I'm working class and most working class people are decent people but some people are poor because of their own antisocial behaviour and no amount of bullshit will ever change that.
Dont get me wrong I've got no allegance to any class. All walks of life have their cunts. Some rob you with the sword some rob you with the pen right?

 

[Rachel666]

Re: SCUM

I was there, my pictures can be found at

http://photobucket.com/albums/b388/michellesshite/dublin riots feb 2006/

(naturally some faces have been smudged out)

 

[1000smurfs]

Question: Were any anarchists involved in smashing some of the windows
of the banks , Mac D's other anarcho-fashionable targets?

If i were a black block anarchist in the crowd I don't think
i'd be able to resist.

I'd be stupid to expect anybody to own up or out their friends,
but I can't help wondering if it's a tactic they'd use:
"Look! the working class are angry at captilalism"

Maybe i'm completely wrong, I don't have an agenda other than curiosity

!ninjaaaaare you getting all this gard...

 

[1000smurfs]

Nuther questions:

If you are poor/marginalised in society etc there are a lot less good choices/options available to you and a lot more bad ones open.
Does this imply that most hooligans/racists/alcoholics/drug addicts
are going to be made up of people from disadvantaged backgrounds?
I'm guessing yes just by the logic of social darwinism ( here snakybus, come and get the little fishy )

Are they then to be treated differently when it comes time to punish?
Many / most from disadvantaged backgrounds make the right choices even
when when dealt fewer cards. Should they be praised ? Should those
from well to-do backgrounds be more severly punished when they transgress ? Everyone would agree solving wealth inequality is a worthy aim but how do we deal with trangressors in the meantime?

Could we have an amensty for the rioters? Come forward , explain your grievances, do some community service and avoid jail.

I'm surely being naive. AoifeD ,Oh Shit and others can offer more elightened opinions on this sort of stuff I'm sure. But I'd like
to hear anyone and everyone's opinions, this is a mesage board not
a debating society, It's a free for all by nature , you can always kill file anyone you don't agree with or whose analysis you think isn't worthy.

 

[classic seanc]

I'm getting the vibe that we've all calmed down a bit over the last cupla pages.

Let's keep it that way.

 

[тхеодоре кацзынски]

I'm getting the vibe that we've all calmed down a bit over the last cupla pages.

Let's keep it that way.

ill batter yis all

ps thought my new signature was pretty apt no!?

 

[nlgbbbblth]

Re: SCUM

Lets talk about scummers..
I come from a working class background as I'm guessing most people do on thumped (law of averages).

Disagree with you there.

 

[nlgbbbblth]

Should those
from well to-do backgrounds be more severly punished when they transgress ?

No.
But they will get a harder time from the media.

Compare two cases

- Anabels: Four posh boys with no previous convictions kill one of their contemporaries. Get quite lenient sentences. Media uproar all through the trial. Constant focus on their upbringing/backgrounds with the emphasis that they should have known better etc.

- New Ross: Eight working class dudes from tough estates and a prior reputation for being pricks kill a Swedish flower seller. I know this because I grew up there. Get even lighter sentences. No media uproar bar cursory reporting of the case. No focus whatsoever on their backgrounds.

 

[classic seanc]

Should they be praised ? Should those
from well to-do backgrounds be more severly punished when they transgress ? Everyone would agree solving wealth inequality is a worthy aim but how do we deal with trangressors in the meantime?

Well, the amount of money your parents make or where you come from has very little to do with how good a person you are. Some people are just dicks y'know?

Its interesting though how white collar crime seems to be dealt with much less harshly than blue collar crime. It galls me when I see these tribunal's goin on, and seemingly all these politicians were rolling in money at a time when my dad was getting laid off, and the effective tax rate was around 70% (or so I'm told, it was before my time) Anyway, that might be a different issue.

Should there be an amnesty for the rioters? Well, I'm sure most of them will get away with it anyway, that's what draws people to rioting, they can wreck the place with no repercussions for themselves.
I'd love to hear from them, rather than anybody on thumped, what their grievances are, in a rational sit-down-and-talk-about-it kinda way. I'd love even more to hear any logical , workable ideas to address these issues.

the rule of law is a pretty important thing, we have a democracy that works reasonably well, at the risk of sounding like micky mcdowell, I can't really condone a bunch of people that try to subvert it, and batter and terrorise random folks in the process.

 

[nlgbbbblth]

Its interesting though how white collar crime seems to be dealt with much less harshly than blue collar crime. It galls me when I see these tribunal's goin on, and seemingly all these politicians were rolling in money at a time when my dad was getting laid off, and the effective tax rate was around 70% (or so I'm told, it was before my time) Anyway.

Some white collar crime (certain types of fraud, tax evasion) is perceived not be 'hurting anyone'. And indeed, some of it doesn't fuck up people's lives. The shit that is coming out in the tribunals however is a different story and a lot of the corruption and crooked deals there have impacted both directly and indirectly on the general public.

Blue collar crime can mess people up. A handbag snatched, a syringe or knife to your throat. A burglar going through your house. All this stuff can fuck you up for good. Make you paranoid and nervous. Just because a guy robs your handbag and it only contains say €10 someone shouldn't say 'That's only a tenner, Mr X avoided paying €100,000 in tax last year - so lock him up and let the robber off with three months suspended'.

 

[classic seanc]

Some white collar crime (certain types of fraud, tax evasion) is perceived not be 'hurting anyone'. And indeed, some of it doesn't fuck up people's lives. The shit that is coming out in the tribunals however is a different story and a lot of the corruption and crooked deals there have impacted both directly and indirectly on the general public.

Blue collar crime can mess people up. A handbag snatched, a syringe or knife to your throat. A burglar going through your house. All this stuff can fuck you up for good. Make you paranoid and nervous. Just because a guy robs your handbag and it only contains say €10 someone shouldn't say 'That's only a tenner, Mr X avoided paying €100,000 in tax last year - so lock him up and let the robber off with three months suspended'.

I know what your saying, and I've had a junkie break into my gaff and put a knife to my throat, so I know its shit. Affected me a lot more than one might assume. But for society in general, all those millions of pounds of unpaid tax could've paid for a lot of things for the people. I know, that's only in theory, but still.

Am I getting off topic here? Stop me if I am. I'm not sure any more.........

 

[La La]

Question: Were any anarchists involved in smashing some of the windows
of the banks , Mac D's other anarcho-fashionable targets?

If i were a black block anarchist in the crowd I don't think
i'd be able to resist.

I'd be stupid to expect anybody to own up or out their friends,
but I can't help wondering if it's a tactic they'd use:
"Look! the working class are angry at captilalism"

Maybe i'm completely wrong, I don't have an agenda other than curiosity

!ninjaaaaare you getting all this gard...

oly summed it up in eirecore:

The poor anarchist black bloc, torn between a good oul ruck with the pigs and their anti-nationalist stance. Hohoho. Still, that's what masks are for.

gotta love him.



deep breath everyone