Releasing Music Yourself -versus- Not Unless We Get a Deal (3 Viewers)

[taubstumm]

hey, i read about ten pages into this thread and then gave up, so i don't know if you're all still talking about the same stuff now as you were then. however, my general impression is that waterfall is talking complete rubbish - the sort of rubbish you internalise from too many years spent reading hot press and the like. waterfall seems to already have his mind made up about a lot of the context of what he's talking about, and can't seem to see what he's missing. he's just talking past people, rather than actually being interested in what they have to say.

the costs given for releasing music are loopy, and i say that from long experience of releasing music.

(as an aside, in fact, i've gone out of my way when releasing music to have stuff that most people would regard as 'extra' or 'uneconomic' - recycled paper, metallic inks, stuff like that. and i've never come near spending eight grand on a release.)

i do it because i fucking love it. money-wise it has sort-of barely broken even, which is more than most bands can say. it was done because i saw that labels like dischord and constellation and touch and go were run by normal human beings like the rest of us, who just do shit, and do it their own way, cos it could and should be done.

if people don't understand where i'm coming from with that, i can't make them. but it should be obvious.

 

[Space]

Read the full opening post

So if a label is presented with two good bands with equl potential, one band who flits between Crawdaddy gigs and TBMC basement rehearsals and another band who's saved up, recorded, promoted, organised launch gigs, got their mates, nieces, nephews, grannys etc to buy their single and got it in at number 14 giving them the beginnings of a fan base, which are they going to choose to invest in?

Your end goal is still to get signed to a label yeah?

 

[jane]

I mentioned earlier ( and I will continue to do so) that my band are releasing our CD next month. Its going to cost us under a grand to get the cds pressed-also I did the artwork myself, so that was one expense out of the way.

The gig will take place in the Voodoo Lounge-it'll cost us the grand total of nothing and we'll get paid too- not much probably but still..

The promoter is in it for the love of music- any profits will go into getting other bands to play

Fair enough the arguement in this thread is - (or ocassionally is): "Independant music versus getting signed to a recognised Industry label"

People are getting irritated for reasons eloquently expressed in Janes post, so I wont repeat them but..


May I draw attention to the first word in this title:

Ta, dude.

In other news, I have a story that I'm thinking of having illustrated, in case you're feeling like you want a follow-up to A Chat With Trees. How are you at drawing bogmen?

Speaking of which, if waterfall would like an example of the kind of spontaneous and just-for-fun creative process, he should check out that thread (http://www.thumped.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=47151), which remains one of the funniest things in the history of the internet, or at least for the audience that is Thumped. And it's so fucking funny because it was clear that both diddles and johnnystress were laughing their fucking holes off while doing it.

I'm being totally serious here -- that's the same process through which really excellent art is created. Just because people felt like doing it and didn't wait for someone else's permission, or for a contract to be signed. You create the stuff wherever you want, and someday, if you're lucky, someone might pay you to do it. But you create it wherever and whenever you can. Yeah, me and Dunchee are going, "Publish that shit!" but not because we think they'll make millions, just because it's really funny and great. But we can still always bump up the thread and read it again.

In some ways, it was watching the whole process unfold that made it so fucking hilarious. Not all cool stuff is about the end product, and that's what DIY music is really about: the process and the community are as important as that which is produced.

 

[waterfall]

Your end goal is still to get signed to a label yeah?

yeah, a local indie label

 

[therealjohnny]

edit:


nope- I really think youre arguements are all over the place waterfall

unless your notion of "independant label" is very different than mine

 

[snakybus]

How are you at drawing, bogman?

Way to ask for a favour, Jane!

 

[taubstumm]

yeah, a local indie label

dude, i used to co-run a local indie label, and we would rather have gouged our own eyes out than released anything by a band with the kind of assumptions about everything that you seem to have.

in fact, we had a rule of thumb that any demos that came in to us with the words 'unsigned' or 'showcase' on them went straight in the bin.

 

[snakybus]

hey tom, sign us

pleeeeeeeeease

 

[taubstumm]

hey tom, sign us

pleeeeeeeeease

got a spare eight grand?

 

[therealjohnny]

dude, i used to co-run a local indie label, and we would rather have gouged our own eyes out than released anything by a band with the kind of assumptions about everything that you seem to have.

in fact, we had a rule of thumb that any demos that came in to us with the words 'unsigned' or 'showcase' on them went straight in the bin.

where do i send my tape? I recorded it on my bedroom and it has two overlapping vocal tracks but you get the idea

 

[jane]

yeah, a local indie label

Yeah, but people here are trying to explain that the way you're describing is not the only way, and in fact, most local indie labels will respond to an act of community rather than a professionally-produced press release. The words 'unsigned' or 'showcase' send a message that you're just using an indie as a stepping stone, rather than engaging with the process that the indie community supports and encourages.

As snthr pointed out, it's obvious to those of us who are part of the sections of the independent music scene who make up most of the Thumped membership. People have been trying to help, and you really have just kept reiterating how much it costs.

No one is saying that it's free or suggesting that you should shun the possibility of commercial success, but if you love your hobby, you put money into it, and you don't expect anyone to give that money back to you. I don't expect people to pay for my running shoes, or my printer ink, or for the time I lose (and later have to recoup) because I blew off a day of work to write a story. I've put on a good few gigs in my time, and sometimes, yes, you lose money on them, but the thing is, you chalk it up to it being a thing you do because you love it, and turning a profit isn't an issue. People pay lots of money to do stuff like go skiing and snowboarding or fishing or skydiving, but they don't consider it a 'loss' financially, they consider it something that they love to do that happens to require a bit of cash to continue doing.

 

[waterfall]

dude, i used to co-run a local indie label, and we would rather have gouged our own eyes out than released anything by a band with the kind of assumptions about everything that you seem to have.

in fact, we had a rule of thumb that any demos that came in to us with the words 'unsigned' or 'showcase' on them went straight in the bin.

Shame

 

[RSJ]

yeah, a local indie label

For example?

 

[waterfall]

As snthr pointed out, it's obvious to those of us who are part of the sections of the independent music scene who make up most of the Thumped membership. People have been trying to help, and you really have just kept reiterating how much it costs.

.

Honestly, this is not the case. It started with me saying that I know of cases where 8k was spent on a single.

The argument started with people calling me a liar, who could spend this and I was explaining how. I think the guys who did it are eejits like everybody else.

Sure go back to earlier and you'll see me say "What would you say if your little brother started a band and took out an 8k loan"

I'm being taken up wrong

 

[taubstumm]

Shame

so when an entire argument doesn't match your assumptions, you just come back with one-word replies and ignore the rest? is that the best you can do?

 

[egg_]

€30 x 6 people x 3 nights accom = €540
€100 petrol x 2 cars = €200
Food €15 a day x 4 days on the road x 6 people = €360
Venue booking
Crawdaddy = €350
Cypress Ave = €200
Spirit Store = €150
Roisin Dubh = €200

Dudes, this budget is anything but exorbitant. Sure, if you've years of experience and/or know people in the underground scene you can cut it down drastically, but lots of young bands don't. The accommodation budget would cover a very cheap B&B and the food budget is tiny - breakfast, lunch and dinner for a fiver each?

Yeah yeah I know his budget doesn't account for the fact that people will actually come to the gigs, but still, the expenses for a 6 piece band who don't know anyone and who no-one will come and see is, I would say, not unreasonable

I think it's pretty unfair to slag a guy off for not being as steeped in underground/DIY culture as we all are, some of us since we were very young

 

[billygannon]

I'm being taken up wrong

I'll set up a label with you

 

[waterfall]

Dudes, this budget is anything but exorbitant. Sure, if you've years of experience and/or know people in the underground scene you can cut it down drastically, but lots of young bands don't. The accommodation budget would cover a very cheap B&B and the food budget is tiny - breakfast, lunch and dinner for a fiver each?

Yeah yeah I know his budget doesn't account for the fact that people will actually come to the gigs, but still, the expenses for a 6 piece band who don't know anyone and who no-one will come and see is, I would say, not unreasonable

I think it's pretty unfair to slag a guy off for not being as steeped in underground/DIY culture as we all are, some of us since we were very young

But let it be known that this is just my explanation of how bands have spend 8k. i don't agree with it

It's not my recommended route to success as some of you are suggesting. It's just misunderstanding from a long thread.

 

[taubstumm]

where do i send my tape? I recorded it on my bedroom and it has two overlapping vocal tracks but you get the idea

just sign this here contract, young man - i'm gonna make you a star

 

[egg_]

so when an entire argument doesn't match your assumptions, you just come back with one-word replies and ignore the rest? is that the best you can do?

Dude! Chill out! This isn't an argument, it's a guy looking for advice, getting hassled because he doesn't fit in, and then trying to defend himself