Racism in Ireland (2 Viewers)

Lili Marlene

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In a week where we're talking about public service broadcasting, RTE should be on the ball better than just echoing what's being yelled on Twitter. That yelling is already happening.
My reaction was mostly to The Late Debate last night and Morning Ireland this morning. But, like I said, in fairness they did come back with the figures today somewhat.

The response to "There are $6billion in remittances going to a single country” should not be “Remittances are fine, your granny did it, and you are a racist”
Because it sounds like his figure is correct, but no one wants to admit it.

“Your figures are baloney, the real figure is $X and in line with international norms for a population this size. And you’re some sneaky fuck, using bogus figures to scaremonger.”

I just wasn’t hearing that anywhere yesterday or last night.

I think we’re mostly saying the same thing.
I agree to the extent that it should be done, but I also know that this is the trick people fell into with Trump, thinking that they could shame him and his followers with facts and figures while he's just moved onto the next thing. You end up on the back foot, just being a corrector to the racist. Grealish is clearly going for that Trump thing here, how successful it will be in Ireland i'm not sure.

It's the kind of shit my dad forwards on to me and when I go do the research and correct him he goes "oh right, fair enough, I hadn't thought about it too much" because he's not actually a bad guy, but half the damage is already done.

I kind of think just publicly making a fool of him would be better than correcting him (which should also be done of course). The youth of today just shouting "OK Boomer" a million times at him will probably do more damage to his reputation than any amount of correction. The Ian O'Doherty's of this world can get all worked up in their columns about the lack of civility and polarization all they like, these racists don't deserve civility when they're the ones advocating for violence.
 
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ann post

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Minor update, apparently his constituency was redrawn 2 years ago losing him 800ish votes, that coupled with not doing any work and spending loads of money has him fighting for his seat. + For those who don't like scrolling back his business collapsed 3 years ago. He wants a TD income to keep the big car on the road and it doesn't matter what effect it has on his locality or country.
 

hermie

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Whoa there. Obvs I agree with you politically, but the above isn't necessarily true. It's very to say 'grow plants', but ... well, for example all the farming around my house is livestock. It's just not possible to grow plant-based food with the soil/microclimate in my area in any kind of scalable way - and I know because we've tried it. We grow a shitload of vegetables, and the only way it can be done is with raised beds and importing compost (we buy 3 tonnes a year). It's labour-intensive, and probably costs more than we save even without factoring in the time spent
That's not particularly relevant though is it? We don't have a big problem with food shortages in Ireland. And there's always going to be land that isn't particularly arable. But the fact is that animal farming takes up 83% of the world’s agricultural land, but delivers only 18% of our calories (while contributing massively to global warming). That's ridiculously unproductive.
 

hermie

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The other thing is just because some land can be used for pasture but not crops doesn't mean it should.
 

7 - No tomorrow

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I agree to the extent that it should be done, but I also know that this is the trick people fell into with Trump, thinking that they could shame him and his followers with facts and figures while he's just moved onto the next thing. You end up on the back foot, just being a corrector to the racist. Grealish is clearly going for that Trump thing here, how successful it will be in Ireland i'm not sure.

It's the kind of shit my dad forwards on to me and when I go do the research and correct him he goes "oh right, fair enough, I hadn't thought about it too much" because he's not actually a bad guy, but half the damage is already done.

I kind of think just publicly making a fool of him would be better than correcting him (which should also be done of course). The youth of today just shouting "OK Boomer" a million times at him will probably do more damage to his reputation than any amount of correction. The Ian O'Doherty's of this world can get all worked up in their columns about the lack of civility and polarization all they like, these racists don't deserve civility when they're the ones advocating for violence.
I was only talking about the RTE coverage, which has since been corrected, but for the whole first day no one talked about the figures - like it didn't matter
Still plenty of space to talk about his motivations alongside that. It's not an either/or.

Twitter and the youth of today will still do their thing, no matter what.
 

Lili Marlene

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but for the whole first day no one talked about the figures
Ah I know, but it's not like correcting him will matter a jot to what he's doing. It's the same as when he came out with “these are economic migrants from Africa who would come to Ireland to sponge off the system” and everyone got all worked up and used figures to prove him wrong. Meanwhile he said nothing else about the issue, didn't apologize and got ready for his next spurious remark that he absolutely doesn't believe in. If we made him feel a fool rather than the man controlling the conversation he might shut the fuck up.

edit: although if he's anything like Trump I guess you can't make him feel the fool. We should just stop covering him then. Gemmtrails has some support but she's mostly ignored because she doesn't get the coverage.
 
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Lili Marlene

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I'm not trying to make this into a massive argument btw, i'm really wondering what do people think is the best way of dealing with this stuff in Ireland?
 

hermie

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It certainly matters to correct elected reps on bogus facts

Whatever else you want to say, you have to do that
Of course Grealish will say he got his figures from the World Bank. Which sounds pretty legit, except that they get their figures from the Nigerians back-of-a-cigarette-paper calculations. But yes, you have to call that out first and foremost whatever else you do.
 

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Matters to who? Certainly not to the careers of independent TDs

Me
The public
Anyone who cares about facts

You shouldn’t be able to get up in the Dail and spout a bunch of erroneous numbers without the journalists covering the issue, correcting you on it – which is what happened
I don’t care who you are or what the topic is; that’s what public service broadcasting is supposed to do

Let everyone else shame and yell at him to beat the band, but RTE should be marking the facts when they cover it
That’s their job

If you’re talking about or looking for a silver bullet to fight racism, I don’t think anyone on earth knows what it is

But that’s not what I’m talking about
 

7 - No tomorrow

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Of course Grealish will say he got his figures from the World Bank. Which sounds pretty legit, except that they get their figures from the Nigerians back-of-a-cigarette-paper calculations. But yes, you have to call that out first and foremost whatever else you do.
Exactly. Thank you.
 

egg_

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That's not particularly relevant though is it? ... the fact is that animal farming takes up 83% of the world’s agricultural land, but delivers only 18% of our calories (while contributing massively to global warming) ... The other thing is just because some land can be used for pasture but not crops doesn't mean it should.
Erm ... well if a great deal of the 83% of agricultural land that's used to grow meat just cannot be used to grow plants instead then it is relevant, no? I don't understand what your last sentence is saying
 

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CC to the racists I kind of have the horn for thread.

When she called the people who broke into her car "knackers", did she mean travelers or inner city northsiders?

Because I think it was the latter and I am possibly offended


Fucking hilarious how FIanna Fail can't get out of their own fucking way
FG sneaky ops team got them good on this

It is ASTOUNDING to me that every candidate going for election hasn't been told to autodelete their tweets if they're a year old
 

hiadudiad?

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When she called the people who broke into her car "knackers", did she mean travelers or inner city northsiders?

Because I think it was the latter and I am possibly offended


Fucking hilarious how FIanna Fail can't get out of their own fucking way
FG sneaky ops team got them good on this

It is ASTOUNDING to me that every candidate going for election hasn't been told to autodelete their tweets if they're a year old
I thought inner city northsiders are "scumbags"? Im referring to a previous thumped analysis of this word. Is gouger a safe word? To me scumbags are gougers from anywhere and I suspect this young lady meant gougers. I hope I haven't put my foot in it again.
 

7 - No tomorrow

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I thought inner city northsiders are "scumbags"? Im referring to a previous thumped analysis of this word. Is gouger a safe word? To me scumbags are gougers from anywhere and I suspect this young lady meant gougers. I hope I haven't put my foot in it again.
My experience has been that southsiders and people that speak like they belong to a rugby club, call anyone wearing a tracksuit or acting shifty, a ‘knacker’
But I am far from the authority on this
 

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