new liverpool thread - everyone loves them (2 Viewers)

[trev]

Benitez is obviously quite a good manager, you only have to look at his record to see that, and I'm not calling for his head before the Summer. That would just cause chaos. However, in order to overhaul United's dominance of the Premiership, to overcome the 18 years of inferiority and under achievement he needs to be a great manager. Is Benitez a great manager? Closer scrutiny of his achievements doesn't support that at the moment. He achieved great things in Spain, and got a lot of mileage out of The Champions League exploits, but his marker lies in the Premiership. Nothing else matters at this point. Benitez is also blessed with having Steven Gerrard in his team. Istanbul, Cardiff - any number of crucial winners or man of the match performances. Take Steven Gerrard out of the last five years and you would have a very different situation.

Liverpool have a huge amount of talented players, but they are being made to cater to Benitez's often baffling whims. You don't have to be a cavalier idiot like Keegan was at Newcastle to challenge United, but you need something between that and the safety first, no risks approach of Benitez. Mourinho had it, but he could play the mind games. Rafa clearly can't. Difference was that Jose's players were all behind him. They were all happy on their roles, and would die for the cuase. How many Liverpool players truly believe in what Rafa is doing, when he keeps shutting up shop or dropping players who need to play?

Liverpool are enjoying their best season in years, and as a fan I'm grateful for that. But it's the details that betray the league table. If we were playing 4-4-2, with players in the right positions, giving it all and it just wasn't happening, through the pressure on the players or whatever, then I'd be as happy as fuck. Hats on to Rafa in that case. Instead week in week out, we're left to scratch our heads at team sheets and substitutions, watch the expressions of bemused potential match winners and listen to bullshit after the fact.

When Fergie was presented with a similar daunting task 20 years ago, he did so by cultivating an attacking team, with a never say die mentality. I thought Benitez had that sorted at the start of the season, but he's shelved it for some reason. If Benitez wants to prove he's a great, he needs to find the team that beat United and Chelsea, that refused to lie down and came back against Man City, Wigan the first time, Middlesborough. If he needs a hint where to find them, they're in the dressing room. He might consider letting them play for the rest of the season just to see what could happen.

i'm gonna read that after lunch but one point i want to make is this....

"if ye hadnt steven gerrard ye'd be shit" is a quote i hear constantly....

BUT THE FUCKIN FACT IS WE DO HAVE STEVEN GERRARD! ( til march anyway )

 

[Wheels]

i'm gonna read that after lunch but one point i want to make is this....

"if ye hadnt steven gerrard ye'd be shit" is a quote i hear constantly....

BUT THE FUCKIN FACT IS WE DO HAVE STEVEN GERRARD! ( til march anyway )

Yeah I know, I'm not saying it's a bad thing! We also have Reina, Carragher, Skrtel, Mascherano, Alonso, Torres etc; I'm not saying that Gerrard is the be all and end all, but he has saved our bacon a few times. We also have Ryan Babel, Daniel Agger and Robbie Keane who for various reasons have under performed, been underused or mistreated. All potentially massively important to the team and club, but have been linked with moves away because they're unhappy with how they've been treated. Benitez insists on playing his workhorse muse Kuyt, and frustrates better attacking options on the sidelines.

When his team get a few early goals in a game, they look comfortable and he sends on the likes of Babel to put icing on the cake. But when the goals don't come, as is so often the case, he waits til it's too late. He repeatedly makes the wrong decisions with substitutions, either sending on Lucas for an attacking player to kill a game when it's not over, or putting on Keane or Babel as headless chickens when the game practically is. As a manager you need to be able to get those decisions right most of the time.

Benitez goes on about the squad a lot, how the players are all of good quality and should be able come in whenever they are asked to and perform to the highest standards. He has a point, but the more craetive players are being stiffled to the point where they are almost useless. Keane's intergration to the squad has been a disaster, and Babel's breakthrough year just isn't happening. It doesn't have to be this way though! Benitez is more interested in players fitting into roles and positions, not grooming their natural talents and forming instinctual partnerships (bar Gerrard and Torres of course.) It just hurts to know that it could be so much better with a bit more bravery.

The kop fans talk about having a team of 11 Carraghers because of his commitment. But it's just a joke. I think Benitez would happily have at least 3 more Kuyts in the team, and that's not funny at all.

 

[ratmonkey]

Yeah I know, I'm not saying it's a bad thing! We also have Reina, Carragher, Skrtel, Mascherano, Alonso, Torres etc; I'm not saying that Gerrard is the be all and end all, but he has saved our bacon a few times. We also have Ryan Babel, Daniel Agger and Robbie Keane who for various reasons have under performed, been underused or mistreated. All potentially massively important to the team and club, but have been linked with moves away because they're unhappy with how they've been treated. Benitez insists on playing his workhorse muse Kuyt, and frustates better attacking options on the sidelines. When his team get a few early goals in a game, they look comfortable and he sends on the likes of Babel to put icing on the cake. But when the goals don't come, as is so often the case, he waits til it's too late. He repeatedly makes the wrong decisions with substitutions, either sending on Lucas for an attacking player to kill a game when it's not over, or putting on Keane or Babel as headless chickens when the game practically is. As a manager you need to be able to get those decisons right most of the time.

Isn't that exactly when you want to kill a game?

 

[Wheels]

Isn't that exactly when you want to kill a game?

I know what you're saying, but what I mean is that he likes to take off his match winners at 1-0, say in the derby, and then pays for it. The best way to kill off a game you're leading one nil, is to try and go two nil up. Then you can start packing your team with defensive midfielders.

 

[ratmonkey]

I'd go along with that. Maybe tighten up if you're 1-0 up in the last 10 minutes, but before then is only asking for trouble.

 

[Hector Grey]

god i hate that shit: withouot gerrard and torres you be shit.
yeah, without jairzinho, carlos alberto, rivelino, pele, gerson, tostao and cloadaldo, brazil would have been shit in 1970. and if christiano ronaldo didn't have any feet he'd be a shit footballer. what a sack of fuck. sorry. that kinda talk boils my blood.

here, bayern are on the trail of a treble. anyone for klinnsmann?

 

[Wheels]

god i hate that shit: withouot gerrard and torres you be shit.
yeah, without jairzinho, carlos alberto, rivelino, pele, gerson, tostao and cloadaldo, brazil would have been shit in 1970. and if christiano ronaldo didn't have any feet he'd be a shit footballer. what a sack of fuck. sorry. that kinda talk boils my blood.

here, bayern are on the trail of a treble. anyone for klinnsmann?

For the record, I don't subscribe to that viewpoint. Every team is weaker without their best players but not every team relies on two players for their goals as much. That's not a judgment on the other players, it's just the way Benitez likes it. For Torres and Gerrard to shine there's a shit load of immense players needed in other positions. What is true to say though, is that the Gerrard-Torres combo is the only attacking option that Benitez truly encourages and endorses. Liverpool wouldn't be shite without Gerrard and Torres, but they would be a lot better with a more attacking line around them. Benny and Berty do alright when they're given the chance. Babel and Keane could create fanatastic moves wit them too. If that's what Benitez wanted of course.

Are you joking about Klinnsmann?

 

[Hector Grey]

For the record, I don't subscribe to that viewpoint. Every team is weaker without their best players but not every team relies on two players for their goals as much. That's not a judgment on the other players, it's just the way Benitez likes it. For Torres and Gerrard to shine there's a shit load of immense players needed in other positions. What is true to say though, is that the Gerrard-Torres combo is the only attacking option that Benitez truly encourages and endorses. Liverpool wouldn't be even shite without Gerrard and Torres, but they would be a lot better with a more attacking line around them. Benny and Berty do alright when they're given the chance. Babel and Keane could create fanatastic moves wit them too. If that's what Benitez wanted of course.

Are you joking about Klinnsmann?

i dunno la, we did alright against united this season without torres and gerrad. ha ha. i mean, obviously, liverpool are better with them, what team wouldn't be? and united fan's don't give me this " we have carrick what would we need gerrard for" cack.

klinnsy: joke. he's finally got it together, but bayern is a walk in the park compared to the mess at liverpool.

 

[Hector Grey]

even glen hysen is slaggin rafa now!

 

[Cormcolash]

Come on like, when you look at it statistically, pretty much every team would be two or three places below where they are without their top scorer. Where would United have finished last season if Ronaldo hadn't scored 40 goals?
It's just that Gerrard tends to score more crucial winners in tense situations that makes him seem more important.
At the end of the day though any team is gonna miss their top scorers, not just Liverpool.

 

[Wheels]

anyone up for watching the Chelsea game? I'll buy the first packet of gripes.

 

[Lefty Frizzell]

Was Glenn Hysen shit? I was too young during his heyday to be able to make any kind of informed critique of the man. He had great hair. I'll give him that.

Going to the pub wheels?

 

[Mitchum]

anyone up for watching the Chelsea game? I'll buy the first packet of gripes.

Heading over to it.

Hopefully Home Farm Extremadura can do something against the Mancs tomorrow.

 

[Janer]

nvH3GImZthe next guy would probably succeed with benitez'z team. give it to sammy.

The mighty Sammy who failed miserably with the Trotters??
Jaysus.

 

[Hector Grey]

The mighty Sammy who failed miserably with the Trotters??
Jaysus.

you daft arsenal cunt, haven't you been reading this thread or are you meandering around spunking your wad before you even see the goal, just like the arsenal themselves.

 

[Janer]

I think the only one daft as a brush is Rafa.

The pressure he is heaping onto all you 19 years for a title fans has to be excruciating.
19-17 looking more like 18-18!

 

[coast to coast]

god i hate that shit: withouot gerrard and torres you be shit.
yeah, without jairzinho, carlos alberto, rivelino, pele, gerson, tostao and cloadaldo, brazil would have been shit in 1970. and if christiano ronaldo didn't have any feet he'd be a shit footballer. what a sack of fuck. sorry. that kinda talk boils my blood.

here, bayern are on the trail of a treble. anyone for klinnsmann?

Newly promoted Hoffenheim back top of the league. No thanks.

 

[I Bleed Black]

Thank god for Nando, and thank fuck it wasn't another draw

 

[Janer]

Chelsea were totally devoid of ideas, I don't know whats more shocking their demise or ours.

Liverpool totally deserved it but as per usual the ref took all the attention.
Never a sending off in A and totally as Ruud said on Sky a double Red for B!!

Other game the north east derby was more exciing end to end stuff, penalty for the Toon was very soft too, Sunderland were the better team, they just seem to have a new found confidence.

 

[Lefty Frizzell]

Keane gone back to Spurs for 15 mill

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...s-clinch-pound15m-deal-for-keane-1523002.html