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Hmmmm

Lansdowne stands as fitting monument to rugby's snobs

By Kevin Myers

Tuesday November 25 2008

Only one thing is really significant from Saturday's sour and tawdry little affair in Croke Park: it is 68,352. This is how many people chose, on a grey November day, to watch Ireland play an unglamorous country which is marooned outside the two great annual world rugby contests.

Which is 18,352 more than the new Lansdowne Road stadium will accommodate. What kind of insanity is this? The IRFU is deliberately building a venue whose capacity is nearly 20,000 short of the known market demand for a visit of the Manchester City of the rugby world, never mind when rugby's commercial equivalent of Manchester United and Chelsea __ England, France, Australia, South Africa, New Zealand __ come to town.

Only an organisation apparently immune to the moral and fiscal rigour imposed by the bottom line would indulge in such a fanciful and f**less project. The real purpose of the new stadium is not to satisfy the demand to see the matches, nor to generate funds which could help promote the game across the country, but instead to satisfy rugby's obsessions with being a middle-class sport played in middle-class areas by middle-class boys.

This is not rugby: it is smugby, a grotesque indulgence in athletic snobbery, and at the expense of the welfare of the sport itself. It used to be said __ and indeed, I said it myself often enough __ the GAA was the most divisive sporting organisation in Ireland. Not any more. It is now vigorous, generous, far-seeing, and commercially-minded.

In Croke Park, it has built one of the most attractive and exciting stadiums in Europe. With a bit of willpower, the IRFU, and its poor little kinsman, the FAI, could have done a major and hugely profitable deal with the GAA, especially since the latter needs to have more sellout occasions to defray the enormous running costs of Croke Park.

Instead, the lords of irfu are going their own way.

It was one thing for the dauphins of Dublin 4 to go over to the northside for the occasional visit, a fraught anthropological jaunt into Balubaland of Dublin 7 where the natives eat their young, deep-fried, and bath but annually: quite another for the Tara Palmer-Tomkinson of sport to find herself co-habiting with the Royle family for the rest of her life.

So the Croke Park option became not a permanent and sensible choice for all concerned, but a brief and disagreeable exile for rugby, in which the southsiders crossing O'Connell Bridge (perhaps for the first time) were given nose-pegs, maps, a language guide and SAS survival manuals.

Meanwhile, a replacement stadium barely larger than the old one is being built in Lansdowne Road. Money for this monumental idiocy was extracted from the Ahern government __ whose weak, inept, and chicanery-filled policies towards stadium creation in Dublin have created a financially toxic legacy, whose true price will only be seen in the coming decades.

On the strength of an IRFU promise that the new Lansdowne Road development would cost just €365m, the Government assented to it, agreeing to provide €191m __ 52pc of the capital cost. But the irfu had not been 100pc kosher when it presented its projections, for these did not cover key elements to the stadium, such as underground carparking, catering, air-conditioning and pitchside television screens.

The stadium's actual cost is now at least €466m __ 28pc higher than the one which was the basis for the Government giving the go-ahead. At nearly €500m, this new stadium will certainly be a pricey palace with which to cosset the class prejudices of the irfu __ but will it be economically viable?

It certainly makes no economic sense. For each of the six major matches in a rugby season __ two in the autumn, and three in the international championship __ capacity will, on average, be about 25,000 below known demand. That is, 125,000 potential paying-customers paying sweet shag-all.

At an average of €50 a ticket, that's €6.25m that the IRFU is rejecting per rugby season while outside the ground the ticket touts will be doing a roaring trade. And among the locked-out will be the great mass of true rugby supporters, who weekly muddy their feet traipsing after the AIB League. The foregoing figures, naturally, don't include the lost revenue of the FAI, the irfu's ragged orphan-cousin, with a furry gobstopper in his pocket, holes in his shoes, and a woebegone look on his smutty, urchin face.

No doubt the Lansdowne Road project is a triumph for the irfu's wayward subconscious, even as the irfu decision-makers are sure they're doing their best for the game.

Either way, it's no coincidence Ireland is the only country of the old five-nation championship never to have won the Grand Slam in over 60 years. It's no coincidence that rugby in the virtually autonomous province of Munster, with its class-less passion and its genuine devotion to the sport, is so often triumphant in Europe.

And finally, it cannot be coincidental that the supporters of Leinster, which is the provincial quintessence of irfu class consciousness, winsomely flute from the stands: "Allez les bleus." Allez les bleus, my arse.

[email protected]
 
And how much per match I wonder are the GAA charging the IRFU for the use of Croker.

I seriously doubt that the GAA vote to allow the use of Croke Park would have ever passed if the deligates thought it were going to be a perminant thing.
 
"Only an organisation apparently immune to the moral and fiscal rigour imposed by the bottom line would indulge in such a fanciful and f**less project. "

fuckless? what??
 
"Only an organisation apparently immune to the moral and fiscal rigour imposed by the bottom line would indulge in such a fanciful and f**less project. "

fuckless? what??

I think it's probably "feckless" and the filter in whatever website that was copied from has ***'d it out.

He's right about Lansdowne though. It's a complete nonsense knocking and rebuilding the think for the grand total of 5K extra seats.

I spend a fucking fortune on rugby - I went to Paris for the 2 games in the RWC, used to go to Murrayfield every year, follow Munster all over Europe and once the new Stadium opens I'll be back to travelling abroad to support the national team cause I won't have a fucking hope of getting a ticket for Lansdowne.

But at least the IRFU will have nice snug corporate boxes to shill to banks and insurance companies.
 
I think the correct attitude to take to myers is not to take his ramblings seriously, and watch from afar as he continues to degenerate into complete ranting madness, which upon reaching he'll probably get a job writing for either ALIVE! or the daily mail.

Yah. Also, he had a column in the Mail before, I think, pre-Irish Mail, and I think it was way worse. I think it was the Mail where he wrote about how he was sad he never got the chance to put Susan Sontag over his knee and spank her.

He should not be writing a column anywhere, but I worry more about people who take him seriously than I do about him, since he is clearly unwell.

Remember, people, we are talking about a man who WANTS TO FUCK A MOUSE.

I'm crying, writing this.
 
I think this is first time in a long time that he's made any kind of sense. But he's still a f***less idiot.

No, he's not making sense. This drives me mad.
Do you think the IRFU and FAI specifically wanted a 50,000 seat stadium? No, they would have preferred a bigger one. But the space constraints at Lansdowne, once Lansdowne RFC wanted their pitches behind the east stand to remain, militated against this.
As it is, a stadium near the city centre is infintiely preferable to the alternative of building out on a green field site somewhere inaccessible and drab.
Also, the facility will be enough of an improvement to get Ireland great events like UEFA Cup Finals, RWC semi-finals, etc.
Croke Park is a non-starter - it costs a bloody million to rent each time and the field is far too big for either rugby or (more importantly to me) football. It is a big soulless bowl for Irish internationals.
Lansdowne makes all the sense in the world.
 
I think this is first time in a long time that he's made any kind of sense. But he's still a f***less idiot.

I almost felt bad agreeing with the with the prick but then I noticed it was just a pointless article.

Wasn't the scale of the new stadium more to do with planning and avaliable site/space than IRFU classism?

In saying that, I only realised that rugby can be a classless game when I moved to Wales.
 
Yah. Also, he had a column in the Mail before, I think, pre-Irish Mail, and I think it was way worse. I think it was the Mail where he wrote about how he was sad he never got the chance to put Susan Sontag over his knee and spank her.

He should not be writing a column anywhere, but I worry more about people who take him seriously than I do about him, since he is clearly unwell.

Remember, people, we are talking about a man who WANTS TO FUCK A MOUSE.

I'm crying, writing this.

have you caught his love ins with george on the right hook lately? seriously, there a perfect match for each other. A marriage made in pomposity hyperbole heaven.

This ecconomic crash is what they have been waiting for, myers so he can stir up a bit of agro with the forints, and george so he can rant away and be condesended to by the ecconomists they have on the show
 
have you caught his love ins with george on the right hook lately? seriously, there a perfect match for each other. A marriage made in pomposity hyperbole heaven.

This ecconomic crash is what they have been waiting for, myers so he can stir up a bit of agro with the forints, and george so he can rant away and be condesended to by the ecconomists they have on the show

WHAT FRESH HELL IS THIS?
 
WHAT FRESH HELL IS THIS?


george has fallen my dear jane. It started with a budget special featuring the pair of them. Myers was rubbing his thighs in anticipation of social unrest(posibily due to the possibility of the creation of a whole new war and subsequent generation of plucky tommies he could fetishise) and george, chuffed that the smart boy in the class wanted to play with him was lapping it up and adding his own uninformed but strident opinions and predictions of disaster.
 
Wasn't the scale of the new stadium more to do with planning and avaliable site/space than IRFU classism?

Not entirely, there is still the side pitch so a lot of the site is not being used.

The question is of you are only getting 5k extra seats in a normal question to ask would be why bother, it's a cost benefit question.

The answer of course is the benefit comes from upscaling the tickets and selling the same numbers of tickets at a higher price. In a situation where comitted supporters already can't get tickets the effect of disenfranchising your core support to appeal to corporate day trippers.

Apparently this is OK by the IRFU.

I was at the Munster vs AB match few weeks ago, there were people who go to most Magners Matches with me who couldn't get tickets, yet the ground is full of occasion princeses swanning around basking in the excitement. :mad:. And it'll be worse for Irish games at the new "improved"Lansdowne Road.
 
Not entirely, there is still the side pitch so a lot of the site is not being used.

The question is of you are only getting 5k extra seats in a normal question to ask would be why bother, it's a cost benefit question.

The answer of course is the benefit comes from upscaling the tickets and selling the same numbers of tickets at a higher price. In a situation where comitted supporters already can't get tickets the effect of disenfranchising your core support to appeal to corporate day trippers.

Apparently this is OK by the IRFU.

I was at the Munster vs AB match few weeks ago, there were people who go to most Magners Matches with me who couldn't get tickets, yet the ground is full of occasion princeses swanning around basking in the excitement. :mad:. And it'll be worse for Irish games at the new "improved"Lansdowne Road.

I refer you to my post on the previous page. The training pitches were out of the question.

To that post, I'll add that if the FAI & IRFU were to abandon Lansdowne for Croker they'd:
- be unable to raise money through concerts and other events
- be unable to have control over their own schedules.
 
I refer you to my post on the previous page. The training pitches were out of the question.

My point is not whether or not you use them, what I'm saying when it becomes clear that it is not possible to showhorn any meaningful extra capacity into the site, any reasonable organisation sits down and has a rethink.

And part of this rethink is "what impact will this have on our core customers/supporters/business"

IRFU have said. Yeah it's terrible but fuck em.

To that post, I'll add that if the FAI & IRFU were to abandon Lansdowne for Croker they'd:
- be unable to raise money through concerts and other events
- be unable to have control over their own schedules.

Not really.
If it were me I would have scaled down Lansdowne Road. Make it into a 30K venue. A suitable full time home for Leinster, capiable of hosting small internationals, HEC 1/4s and Semis, AIL finals, and still doing concerts, then bite the bullet and come to an agreement with the GAA for 6N and AI's
 
To be perfectly honest, I think most 'real' fans actually will manage to get along to games in Lansdowne anyway. The 'real' fans argument is bogus. Most 'real' fans are in clubs and get tickets this way, as it has always been.
I certainly won't have any trouble getting my football tickets.
Are these 'real' fans the extra ones who went to the Croker games cos they got them through their GAA clubs?

Certainly, your (Myers') argument doesn't stack up financially anyway. Paying the GAA, a competitor, upwards of a million euro for the use of their stadium on a regular basis is totally crazy if some up-front investment can get you your own home.

And finally, I have to own up to not giving a damn about rugby fans and seeing this as an unquestionably positive development for the FAI.
 

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