Ireland (2 Viewers)

[sleepy]

I often feel like the root of this kind of thing is our utter failure as a society to be open about sex. We have porn everywhere, but because nobody talks about this shit none of us have the faintest idea of what someone else (who's not a porn actor) is likely to enjoy. We struggle to even find the language to express what we are likely to enjoy.

Yeah, this seems to be a particularly big problem in Ireland. We’ve had decades of being told to feel shame around our bodies and our sexuality and you can see with lots of people, particularly men, that they are completely uncomfortable with discussing these issues.

 

[JohnnyRaz]

Yeah, this seems to be a particularly big problem in Ireland. We’ve had decades of being told to feel shame around our bodies and our sexuality and you can see with lots of people, particularly men, that they are completely uncomfortable with discussing these issues.

is that changing with younger people though?
there's a currently gap in my social circle between the ages of 6 and 35, so I've no idea.

 

[sleepy]

is that changing with younger people though?
there's a currently gap in my social circle between the ages of 6 and 35, so I've no idea.

I think it might be. I’ve a handful of friends/acquaintances around the late 20s early 30s mark and it doesn’t seem to be as big of a hang up with them.

 

[sleepy]

I think a lot of it is just cultural differences.
This is probably perfectly normal in other countries.

Serial flasher jailed after performing sexual act in front of woman in hospital as she recovered from surgery

A convicted serial flasher has been jailed for entering a patient’s room at University Hospital Limerick and masturbating in front of her while she was in a bed recovering from surgery.

www.independent.ie

I’ve actually had 3 separate women in the last week telling me about harassment they’ve experienced in the workplace from Irish men. Sure maybe it’s a culture thing

 

[egg_]

I’ve actually had 3 separate women in the last week telling me about harassment they’ve experienced in the workplace from Irish men

Can you share examples? I've literally never witnessed sexual harassment in the workplace, even in the shitty jobs I had before I started working in tech - do guys just not do it when there's other guys around, or am I seeing stuff I don't even realise is harassment?

 

[egg_]

Hmm actually I did hear of it a few times though - one place I worked a lad got hired shortly before the Christmas party, and fired immediately afterwards for groping someone. But still - I've never actually witnessed it

 

[egg_]

... or maybe I'm just so obviously a right-on hippy type (or just a wet blanket) that people watch themselves when I'm around?

 

[sleepy]

Can you share examples? I've literally never witnessed sexual harassment in the workplace, even in the shitty jobs I had before I started working in tech - do guys just not do it when there's other guys around, or am I seeing stuff I don't even realise is harassment?

With 2 of the women it involved a guy in my old job. It seemed to be very much the case that he was doing it when other guys weren’t around. Pretty much all the guys that worked there, including myself, just thought he was bit of a harmless gobshite. But any of the women who had to work closely with him were saying he was a horrible creep. Kept going into graphic detail about his sex life. Showed one of the women videos of his girlfriend naked. Kept sending one girl weird messages on social media. Also had a habit of ‘accidentally’ walking in on them in the bathroom. It was all stuff that they felt incredibly uncomfortable with. But as well, it was stuff that the vast majority of people working there, again myself included, had no idea it was happening

 

[Deadmanposting]

Apologies in advance, this is a long one.

One thing I remember from around the time of the Aisling Murphy case was the number of women that came out and said “I don’t feel safe on a daily basis.” Women actually started talking more about issues that affect them on a daily basis that a lot of men wouldn’t have thought was an issue. Even things like that most lads would take for granted, such as going for a pint or a coffee by yourself without getting harassed. I do remember that people started to talk more about these issues and maybe looking at what could be there.

Then it came to light that the murderer was Eastern European so instead of examining deeper issues with why women feel unsafe on a daily basis, people reverted to demonising immigrants and burning down buildings earmarked for homeless families.

It’s completely understandable that women are going to feel afraid. Especially when there is an information void there that’s being filled by stories of unvetted single military aged boogeymen on social media.

But at the same time, it’s hard not to get pissed off when you see that the main people propagating these stories have done nothing to address any other issue that women have raised in the aftermath of Aisling Murphy’s death. Or that one of the main mouthpieces for this movement is an alleged rapist. Or that the National Women’s Council of Ireland have actually come out and said that the toxic behaviour shown during the Dublin riots is exactly why women feel unsafe on a daily basis. Or the fact that people were screaming and roaring abuse at women and children down in Roscrea. When you see all that, it becomes really hard to believe that there is any genuine concern for women or that women are actually being served here at all.

You couple this with the fact that in the wake of the Dublin riots a number of gay and trans people I know were receiving messages saying “after we get rid of the foreigners, we’re coming for ye. Ireland should only be for normal people”. It gets even harder to believe that the people screaming outside refugee centres aren’t completely fucking toxic

If the argument is "Are far right hate groups racist?", then I'd probably agree with you.

I'm thinking more about people having a right to have a say about their community.
If there was a night club or an Amazon warehouse or a halfway house or methadone clinic or a factory or anything being built in my street or your street, we'd want a say.
If the only community centre you had was being knocked down to make it happen, we'd probably want a say also.
And if there was ongoing neglect from the government for our locale and then all of a sudden this is happening with unlimited government money, we'd likely also have an opinion.
We'd probably be pissed off if we were dismissed as bigots for saying so. We might even call Liveline.

If we agree that the Y chromosome is the problem, then shipping in a large batch of these same chromosomes into a community is going to cause legitimate concern.
No one seems to be doing much of anything on any level to allay these concerns other than try and tie them to being racist.
"well, the worst people I can think of also say that thing you said, so therefore I don't have to listen to you"

Again, our fellow citizens have concerns about major unconsulted changes being made to their communities and they are being called bigots for saying so.

I see this more like a Shell To Sea issue. The govt coming in and riding rough over a local community, and fuck your concerns, it's happening.

The answer to the immigration issue surely lies somewhere between the Ireland Is Full headers and some kind of come-one-come-all-ah-sure-it'll-all-work-out.

A majority of Irish people think that we have too much immigration, according to Red C and Ireland Thinks.
I'm of the opinion that most of these people are not Ireland Is Full hard-liners, but mostly people concerned that the govt has handled this cack-handedly, with no vision, and it's piling on top of other systemic problems.

But the stakes of having a proper public conversation are that people are going to call you racist from the get-go.
So people only tell pollsters what they actually think.
That is the roots of societal division.
And I care more about that division than I do about someone wrongly lumping me in with the COnor McGregor for President crowd.


Apologies, also long.
Respect and love to all at Thumped.
Except Scutter, obv. He's cancelled.

 

[dudley]

Was at David O'Doherty a few weeks ago and he reckons we should all vote for Conor McGregor for president, as he clearly has no idea what being president of Ireland actually entails.

"Alright lads, what's on the menu today, kicking out the unvetted mi..... wait, what's this, a celebration of basket weaving on Achill??"

 

[Anthony]

All good points made. Not all opposition to housing immigrants is based in racism. It's a handy subject to disguise one's racism though.

 

[magicbastarder]

Ryanair buys most of the homes in new Dublin estate to rent to cabin crew

Irish airline says it will rent properties at ‘affordable’ rates to staff

www.irishtimes.com

Not sure I'd like my employer also being my landlord.

 

[sleepy]

If the argument is "Are far right hate groups racist?", then I'd probably agree with you.

I'm thinking more about people having a right to have a say about their community.
If there was a night club or an Amazon warehouse or a halfway house or methadone clinic or a factory or anything being built in my street or your street, we'd want a say.
If the only community centre you had was being knocked down to make it happen, we'd probably want a say also.
And if there was ongoing neglect from the government for our locale and then all of a sudden this is happening with unlimited government money, we'd likely also have an opinion.
We'd probably be pissed off if we were dismissed as bigots for saying so. We might even call Liveline.

If we agree that the Y chromosome is the problem, then shipping in a large batch of these same chromosomes into a community is going to cause legitimate concern.
No one seems to be doing much of anything on any level to allay these concerns other than try and tie them to being racist.
"well, the worst people I can think of also say that thing you said, so therefore I don't have to listen to you"

Again, our fellow citizens have concerns about major unconsulted changes being made to their communities and they are being called bigots for saying so.

I see this more like a Shell To Sea issue. The govt coming in and riding rough over a local community, and fuck your concerns, it's happening.

The answer to the immigration issue surely lies somewhere between the Ireland Is Full headers and some kind of come-one-come-all-ah-sure-it'll-all-work-out.

A majority of Irish people think that we have too much immigration, according to Red C and Ireland Thinks.
I'm of the opinion that most of these people are not Ireland Is Full hard-liners, but mostly people concerned that the govt has handled this cack-handedly, with no vision, and it's piling on top of other systemic problems.

But the stakes of having a proper public conversation are that people are going to call you racist from the get-go.
So people only tell pollsters what they actually think.
That is the roots of societal division.
And I care more about that division than I do about someone wrongly lumping me in with the COnor McGregor for President crowd.


Apologies, also long.
Respect and love to all at Thumped.
Except Scutter, obv. He's cancelled.

Those are all fair points. If there is an Amazon warehouse, night club or whatever being built in your community, you can organise your local community to object to Planning Permission and stall or maybe even stop the projects.

But it’s true that there has been a lack of consultation with and input from communities on these issues. The government have completely fucked up here. Not going to deny that for a second.

Maybe the main issue that I’m having here is that I haven’t really been hearing moderate people speaking on this issue and most of the time it is the ‘Ireland is Full’ crowd or those people on Facebook who keep sharing articles from Gript and the liberal dot ie that are shouting loudest on this.

And maybe it’s hard for me to take a lot of the fears that people have seriously because I’m already living in an estate that is made up of roughly 75% immigrants and the only people that have caused any trouble since I’ve moved in to the area have both been Irish. I have to admit, it’s not without its issues. It’s harder to get to know people, especially other parents around the area, when there is a language barrier. And there can be a feeling of a lack of community at times but I can’t tell if that is down to where we’re living or if it’s like this in other estates.

I just can’t help feeling that most of the fears that people have around this issue are being generated by bad actors on social media and that a lot of them don’t seem to have a sound basis in reality. But again, the government have responsibility here too as their silence on this issue has allowed for this to happen.

 

[sleepy]

Ryanair buys most of the homes in new Dublin estate to rent to cabin crew

Irish airline says it will rent properties at ‘affordable’ rates to staff

www.irishtimes.com

Not sure I'd like my employer also being my landlord.

“Oh you want keys to get in? They’re extra”

 

[Deadmanposting]

Maybe the main issue that I’m having here is that I haven’t really been hearing moderate people speaking on this issue

People don't like to appear racist, or how to frame concern without sound like a bigot.

I listen to RTE a lot and the only time they've seemed to be listening to voices with real concerns were after the riots.

This is a difficult point to make.
But when you have an opinion that is on neither end of the spectrum, you hear how any concern/opposition/opinion on immigration is dealt with in the media. To my ears the only acceptable opinion on the radio was 'Immigration is great and anyone opposed is racist'.
When you agree with this, it sounds like there is broad agreement on what the right position and strategy is. And anyone who has an issue with it, is a bit of a cunt.
But this view is strikingly counter to what the majority is telling pollsters consistently.

Huge turnaround after the riots when RTE dispatched reporters to Rosslare and other towns and there was real coverage for the first time that I've heard.
This is anecdotal - and just my impression, but there seems to have been a lot of groupthink and confirmation bias going on with people who have made their minds up long ago on this issue.
And they cannot separate the idea that opening their minds to solving a real problem is actually just agreeing with racists.

No one has the answer yet, because the situation is clearly kinda fucked.
The only way to get to the answer is by talking to each other reasonably and with open minds.
I have little hope that actually happens.



Again again, sorry for the long post.
In a late Teams meeting that is running long and so I have unlimited time on my hands.

 

[Deadmanposting]

I'll probably shut up now

I've made my point as well as this brain of mine will allow me

 

[sleepy]

People don't like to appear racist, or how to frame concern without sound like a bigot.

I listen to RTE a lot and the only time they've seemed to be listening to voices with real concerns were after the riots.

This is a difficult point to make.
But when you have an opinion that is on neither end of the spectrum, you hear how any concern/opposition/opinion on immigration is dealt with in the media. To my ears the only acceptable opinion on the radio was 'Immigration is great and anyone opposed is racist'.
When you agree with this, it sounds like there is broad agreement on what the right position and strategy is. And anyone who has an issue with it, is a bit of a cunt.
But this view is strikingly counter to what the majority is telling pollsters consistently.

Huge turnaround after the riots when RTE dispatched reporters to Rosslare and other towns and there was real coverage for the first time that I've heard.
This is anecdotal - and just my impression, but there seems to have been a lot of groupthink and confirmation bias going on with people who have made their minds up long ago on this issue.
And they cannot separate the idea that opening their minds to solving a real problem is actually just agreeing with racists.

No one has the answer yet, because the situation is clearly kinda fucked.
The only way to get to the answer is by talking to each other reasonably and with open minds.
I have little hope that actually happens.



Again again, sorry for the long post.
In a late Teams meeting that is running long and so I have unlimited time on my hands.

I have to admit I should also be working but finding it really fucking hard this afternoon

 

[Deadmanposting]

Work blows

 

[sleepy]

Work blows

It really does.

We can all agree on that

 

[JohnnyRaz]

Ryanair buys most of the homes in new Dublin estate to rent to cabin crew

Irish airline says it will rent properties at ‘affordable’ rates to staff

www.irishtimes.com

Not sure I'd like my employer also being my landlord.

many many moon ago, pre EU expansion I worked for chubb security.

they used to bring in people from eastern Europe on 1 year work permits, house them in company housing (which their wages were docked for) etc. I remember as a callow youth being shocked at the extent the company had them by the proverbials- the rent was higher than the market rate for example. For most of them it was a case of keeping their head down, avoiding trouble, and going home with a nest egg.