Hello (2 Viewers)

[spuded]

i certainly wouldn't want you to post any glib, arrogant bullshit rather than actually responding to my argument.

two individuals with a clue constitutes an enlightenment in the entire scene.

eh? pot, kettle.....
shit better not finish that one

 

[nooleen]

eh? pot, kettle.....
shit better not finish that one

yeah the difference being that i've actually expressed my feelings instead of a series of smartarsed jokes. cheers ed.

 

[spuded]

yeah the difference being that i've actually expressed my feelings instead of a series of smartarsed jokes. cheers ed.

well I think in fairness dismissing everyone except two people 'with a clue' in the 'punk scene' as not being enlightened I would consider being quite smartarse.

 

[nooleen]

even though they're the only two people who are willing to actually talk about sexism? (and that being mainly dunchee). if everyone else has such a clue let's hear about it.

 

[Anarcho Munk]

Why don't you set up a thread in the politics forum about sexism?


Eirecore is grand and all but most people come here to find out about the deadly tunes and gigs and to take the piss out of each other for shits n' giggles.

 

[spuded]

even though they're the only two people who are willing to actually talk about sexism? (and that being mainly dunchee). if everyone else has such a clue let's hear about it.

Neither of those two people even posted in this thread so I don't get your point in relation to this thread really. this is a public forum and if people don't feel the need to discuss whatever you want them to discuss that is their prerogative, doesn't mean they don't have a clue.

such discussions are best left for face to face conversations. too much can be misconstrued over the old interweb.

 

[the strange guy]

THIS THREAD IS TOO SEXIST FOR MY HANGOVER

HERE'S SOME GENDER EQUALITY + GLIB, ARROGANT BULLSHIT
+ SMARTARSERY

 

[nooleen]

nicely done.

 

[nofunchee]

so, is anyone gonna address what nooly was talking about? i mean opinions on what constitutes sexism don't provide you with accurate dictionary definitions as much as dictionary definitions don't provide you with the complexities and nuances of how discrimination is experienced.

someone who is on the recieving end of discrimination knows that experience. someone who isn't on the recieving end is only a spectator. as a spectator you don't really understand how that person feels. only by engaging in a discussion with people can you have a clue what it's all about. that doesn't include being dismissive, making straw man arguments, or presenting opinion as fact to back up your argument.

nooly bringing this up isn't her bringing it up for no reason or it coming from nowhere. she deserves a bit more respect than that, especially off her mates.

 

[the strange guy]

I think it needs its own thread or maybe everyone who is interested in the topic of dodgy jokes can meet up for a pint in real life to discuss it.

 

[Buzzo]

ah relax,its only t'internet.

Don't get yer jockeys in a twist there, it's only people challenging sexism.

Why don't you set up a thread in the politics forum about sexism?

Sexism isn't just a political discussion dude... it's a real thing that women experience. When sexist behaviour and language is confined to the politics forum, then there'll be no need to challenge it on Eirecore or any of the other forums.

Eirecore is grand and all but most people come here to find out about the deadly tunes and gigs and to take the piss out of each other for shits n' giggles.

This is true. It's bogey when you're exposed to a bunch of purile mysogynistic crap while you're faffing about, and hostility when you point it out.

this is a public forum and if people don't feel the need to discuss whatever you want them to discuss that is their prerogative, doesn't mean they don't have a clue.

such discussions are best left for face to face conversations. too much can be misconstrued over the old interweb.

This *is* a public forum, and if Nooly feels the need to call on people to step up to a conversation on this sexist shit that’s being tolerated round here, then that’s her prerogative and I second it. Eirecore is her space as much as anyone elses. This forum is not a nice place for women sometimes, y'know?

And yeah, I agree, people can misinterpret each other on the internet, more so than in real life. But, there are a number of ways to deal with this such as entering a conversation about it in a respectful manner, asking questions about what people mean, trying to understand where other posters are coming from, and feeling safe to ask questions and challenge without fear of ridicule.

btw-sorry for hogging your hello thread Cleo....

 

[the strange guy]

even though they're the only two people who are willing to actually talk about sexism? (and that being mainly dunchee). if everyone else has such a clue let's hear about it.

I'm always more than willing to talk about everything, it's a side effect of being an opinionated prick.
People usually don't get what I'm saying though.
Well, either that or they think they've an idea of what I'm saying, get it wrong, get offended and then run with it from there.
The whole RAG/Feminism Vs Gender Equality argument a few months back was some classic misunderstanding that culminated in a million pages of waffle.
Everyone was essentially arguing the same points over and over again albeit each perspective was wrapped up in a sufficiently different way so that everyone got pissed off at being misinterpreted - but all misunderstandings could have been ironed out with 30 mins face time.
So I guess that's why I'm not included with Dunchee and Owensie

And yeah, I agree, people can misinterpret each other on the internet, more so than in real life. But, there are a number of ways to deal with this such as entering a conversation about it in a respectful manner, asking questions about what people mean, trying to understand where other posters are coming from, and feeling safe to ask questions and challenge without fear of ridicule.

Let's do it!
Though the internet isn't the best place for it, it's worth another shot.
Maybe some people don't add anything constructive to the argument, maybe people take the piss, maybe people start taking things personally but that's all part and parcel of internet forums and this particular site isn't known for its formality on serious subjects.

Anyone want to start the thread?

 

[D0njo]

I'm always more than willing to talk about everything, it's a side effect of being an opinionated prick.
People usually don't get what I'm saying though.
Well, either that or they think they've an idea of what I'm saying, get it wrong, get offended and then run with it from there.
The whole RAG/Feminism Vs Gender Equality argument a few months back was some classic misunderstanding that culminated in a million pages of waffle.
Everyone was essentially arguing the same points over and over again albeit each perspective was wrapped up in a sufficiently different way so that everyone got pissed off at being misinterpreted - but all misunderstandings could have been ironed out with 30 mins face time.
So I guess that's why I'm not included with Dunchee and Owensie


Let's do it!
Though the internet isn't the best place for it, it's worth another shot.
Maybe some people don't add anything constructive to the argument, maybe people take the piss, maybe people start taking things personally but that's all part and parcel of internet forums and this particular site isn't known for its formality on serious subjects.

Anyone want to start the thread?

It seems to have already been started

 

[the strange guy]

Nah, we need a new one.
This thread is too offensive.

 

[D0njo]

I ONLY HATE THA PIGS MUTHAFUCKA, MA BODY IS A TEMPLE, AN I PAY HOMAGE TO IT DAILY

 

[D0njo]

oof, that be a quick edit

 

[nofunchee]

I'm always more than willing to talk about everything, it's a side effect of being an opinionated prick.
People usually don't get what I'm saying though.
Well, either that or they think they've an idea of what I'm saying, get it wrong, get offended and then run with it from there.
The whole RAG/Feminism Vs Gender Equality argument a few months back was some classic misunderstanding that culminated in a million pages of waffle.
Everyone was essentially arguing the same points over and over again albeit each perspective was wrapped up in a sufficiently different way so that everyone got pissed off at being misinterpreted - but all misunderstandings could have been ironed out with 30 mins face time.
So I guess that's why I'm not included with Dunchee and Owensie

that's not how i remember it at all. and we were'nt arguing the same thing. i don't think feminism is contrary to gender equality. i think the opposite.

 

[the strange guy]

Feminism is a movement fighting for women's rights so that they may be equal to men's rights.
Gender equality is the belief that both gender's rights should be equal with each other.

Feminism is not concerned with men's rights, it is concerned with women's rights.
Gender equality is concerned about everyone's rights.

Female-only events or publications masquerading as some kind of non-sexist celebration is as much of an hypocrisy as having a Black-only event or publications celebrating non-racism.

For a group/event/publication to be strictly female-only, an attitude exists so that males are considered unworthy, discriminated against and their opinions devalued due to the stereotypes held by the group against their gender.
At the same time, to be male-only, an attitude exists so that females are considered unworthy, discriminated against and their opinions devalued due to the stereotypes held by the group against their gender.

This is how I see it.
I think that's as straight forward as I can put it.
Can you agree with these statements?

We weren't arguing the same thing, I meant we were repeating ourselves.

The can of worms is open! (again)

 

[reformer]

i heart the strange guy,my new false idol.

 

[nofunchee]

Feminism is a movement fighting for women's rights so that they may be equal to men's rights.
Gender equality is the belief that both gender's rights should be equal with each other.

Feminism is not concerned with men's rights, it is concerned with women's rights.
Gender equality is concerned about everyone's rights.

Female-only events or publications masquerading as some kind of non-sexist celebration is as much of an hypocrisy as having a Black-only event or publications celebrating non-racism.

For a group/event/publication to be strictly female-only, an attitude exists so that males are considered unworthy, discriminated against and their opinions devalued due to the stereotypes held by the group against their gender.
At the same time, to be male-only, an attitude exists so that females are considered unworthy, discriminated against and their opinions devalued due to the stereotypes held by the group against their gender.

This is how I see it.
I think that's as straight forward as I can put it.
Can you agree with these statements?

We weren't arguing the same thing, I meant we were repeating ourselves.

The can of worms is open! (again)

feminism is concerned with patriarchy, an age-old ordering of society which by and large privilages men over women. examples of this social ordering include the concept of the nuclear family, organised religion, biological determinism in the sciences, the division of society into the public and the private shperes, the legal systems reluctance to apply notions of justice to the private sphere, sexual objectification, rape culture, gendered work, limits on birth control, etc.

feminism isn't just talking about women, it's talking about all of us. most feminists believe that men are an essential part of systemic change because we constitute half of the world's population. it's not about giving women the rights and privilages that men have, it's about changing the institutionalised discrimination. it's about a radical altering of the status quo to achieve GENDER EQUALITY. it doesn't get much more punk than fuckin' with the status quo!

feminism is responsible for, or has influenced heavily, all current theories of gender equality. feminism framed the issue and gave it words and a mode of analysis.

there are many reasons for organising in gender-specific groups. if there are any specific reasons you are uncomfortable with then say them and maybe someone will address it. the argument you gave is very general and needs contextualising. if a recognisable social group get together with the intention of talking about issues common to their own experience i don't really see a problem with it. if they feel the need to exclude others to provide a more comfortable environment for discussing things that are difficult or personal, or because they want to work together to empower themselves as a group, then i have no problem with that.

your description of female-only feminist groups devaluing men's opinions or considering them unworthy is a value judgement you attached and i don't think it's accurate.