Game of Thrones Season 4 - EXPECT SPOILERS (1 Viewer)

[oh shit]

OK I found the answer to question 2).

Rhaegar married Elia Martell because there was no Targaryen female to wed, Dany was born too late. Elia Martell was chosen because the Martells married a Targaryen when Dorne joined the 7 Kingdoms. The Martells had resisted the Targaryen invasion (hence Tywin is keen to get them onside now). So instead of conquering Dorne, Daeron II married Myriah Martell, and his sister Daenerys married Moran Martell. Because of that bit of targaryen blood the Mad King Aerys arranged for Rhaegar to marry Elia.

 

[Jerry Twig]

Do you remember when the height of complex plots was how MacGyver made a torpedo out of a bit of old pipe? Good times.

 

[Lili Marlene]

Came across this fairly recently, page 1 of 3 of the King Arthur Family Tree, from my university notes when I was reading Le Morte D'Arthur

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[Lili Marlene]

#knowledge

 

[hermie]

Yes, it is a serious question but I think you've missed my question, which is probably because I didn't use the right term. I've not read the books and only got into all this in the last few months so I'm a bit unclear on some stuff.

By the 'war of the usurper', I didn't mean the war between Stannis and the Lannisters and Rob and Renly. I thought that is the war of the 5 kings. I meant the war that made Robert the King. This, AFAIK, started when the mad king's son, Raegon (?), Dany's much-older brother (?), nicked off with Ned Stark's sister, who was engaged to Robert - even though he was married to the Martell sister already. In retaliation, Robert went to war to get his fiancee back, Ned chucked in, and when it looked like they'd definitely come and win the war, the Lannisters sacked King's Landing, and Jaime killed Aegon the Mad King (because, although no one knows except Brianne, the Mad King was about to hit the self-destruct button).

OK so then Robert became king by conquest, the Mountain killed the Martell princess and her Targaryen kids on the Lannister's say-so, and Dany and her mad brother went off to exile. I think maybe Jon Snow is secretly the love-child of the Targaryen prince (Raegon?) and Ned Stark's sister because obviously there was some Star Wars-esque 'secret' Ned never got to tell Jon Snow. Whatever.

So then Cersei was married to Robert because he was the king. Otherwise the Lannisters were nowhere NEAR getting to be king. Now, I thought that the reason Jaime pushed Bran from the window was not that incest is taboo, but on the more important point that people would question Joffrey's lineage from Robert, and that he has been fucking the Queen, which would probably make both of them dead and the kids all disowned in the royal line, thus fucking the Lannisters over forever.

Now, I recall in the first series that someone said that the Targaryens practiced incest in the royal line in order to keep it in the family, and this is why every other Targaryen is crazy - ie Dany's brother. This was relevant to the discovery that Jaime and Cersei were secretly Joffrey's parents by Ned Stark, later in the first series. This is the discovery that led to Ned's death and the war of the 5 kings.

(PS I also wondered why Joffrey never asked who his real dad was seeing as there was a whole fucking war over it - I assumed he was in on the secret too but he was taunting Jaime in SE4 EP1 like he thought he was actually his uncle - dumb fucker).

So. In conclusion. I can understand why Jaime and Cersei kept their incest secret - they are not royalty unless people believe Robert the Usurper is the father of Cersei's kids.

My question is,

1. now that their kids are firmly in there as royals (barring a war from Dany), why don't they want to (at least secretly) have Tommen shagging his sister in the best Targaryen tradition?

2. And why did Raegon (?) marry the Martell woman, instead of his own sister, if the Targaryens were publicly known to practice incest?

Ah sorry yeah. I take your point that Bran out the window was probably more because Robert would've killed Jaime and possibly disowned House Lannister but that's not to say that incest was widely accepted. Aegon the Conqueror married his sisters but that practice is very much outdated and alliances between are hugely important to the crown particularly one that already has a flimsy enough claim to the throne. You may remember Jaime asking Ned Stark why he did not take the throne for himself as his house was equally high-standing as house Baratheon. I can't remember the exact ins and outs but aside from Ned being maybe a bit indisposed to the role he also had a weaker claim than Robert going back through the lineage. Even at that it took the behaviour of the Mad King and the stealing of a bride, and the support of Jon Arryn of the Vale and the Starks in the North to give some legitimacy. The Lannisters and the Tyrells played sides for a while, the Lannisters seeing the advantage of swapping over more quickly and gained an advantage. The Dornish were the only really hard done by ones and they're pretty much outsiders anyway.

So to answer your questions:

1) They aren't firmly anything just yet. There are still mutterings about legitimacy, still those who would support a Targaryen uprising, as well as religious zealots with fleeting allegiance. And even then incest is not a socially acceptable thing even for royals at this point in time.

2) It's Rhaegar, isn't it? They needed an accord with Dorne as Dorne was the house/area not to bend the knee as they say and were always threatening uprising. The alliance would have appeased this if it weren't for the young prince following his heart. Ah

 

[hermie]

OK I found the answer to question 2).

Rhaegar married Elia Martell because there was no Targaryen female to wed, Dany was born too late. Elia Martell was chosen because the Martells married a Targaryen when Dorne joined the 7 Kingdoms. The Martells had resisted the Targaryen invasion (hence Tywin is keen to get them onside now). So instead of conquering Dorne, Daeron II married Myriah Martell, and his sister Daenerys married Moran Martell. Because of that bit of targaryen blood the Mad King Aerys arranged for Rhaegar to marry Elia.

Ah right so the royal family were still marrying brother to sister right up to that time, must have overlooked/forgotten that.

I didn't read the first two books so may have been light on that detail.

 

[David Kronenbourg]

Ah right so the royal family were still marrying brother to sister right up to that time, must have overlooked/forgotten that.

I didn't read the first two books so may have been light on that detail.

you started with the third book? any reason in particular?

 

[Lili Marlene]

Not even a like? Fuck you guys. I wrote that out for you.

 

[nooleen]

we're confused enough without bringing another whole dynasty into it

 

[Lili Marlene]

we're confused enough without bringing another whole dynasty into it

well now

King Arthur and Game of Thrones Crossover | FanFiction

 

[nooleen]

stop trying to make arthur happen

it's NOT going to happen

 

[David Kronenbourg]

Boorman's Excalibut is pretty good but only the 18s cut not the crappy PG version

 

[David Kronenbourg]

haha, Excalibutt - An Erotic Arthurian Adventure

 

[nooleen]

well now

King Arthur and Game of Thrones Crossover | FanFiction

"the daughter of two knights"

reminds me of a bit on QI (i think) where someone was described as the 'son/daughter of fishermen':

"don't you mean 'a fisherman'?"

"no, two"

 

[pete]

related / unrelated

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[7 - No tomorrow]

related / unrelated

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her eyes are far enough apart, in fairness.

 

[hermie]

you started with the third book? any reason in particular?

I watched the first two seasons and wanted to go forward not backwards. I have enough else on my reading list and I'm a slow-ass reader.

 

[hermie]

Not even a like? Fuck you guys. I wrote that out for you.

Blocked in here for whatever reason

 

[7 - No tomorrow]

Not even a like? Fuck you guys. I wrote that out for you.

We don't do this for the likes.

 

[ann post]

We don't do this for the likes.

speak for yourself.