election (8 Viewers)

[jane]

http://www.ilovekarlrove.com/

 

[broken arm]

Bush is an stupid man informed by evil money-grabbing oil barons.

The people who voted for Bush have been stupid to support him and they will regret their decision over the next four years.

I don't care if this is vitriolic. This is a bad day.

sorry

 

[LMD64]

Bush is an stupid man informed by evil money-grabbing oil barons.

The people who voted for Bush have been stupid to support him and they will regret their decision over the next four years.

I don't care if this is vitriolic. This is a bad day.

what about the people who didn't vote for bush, and will also come to regret it over the next four years?
namely, those who weren't allowed to vote in the american elections by virtue of the fact that they're not american?
just because they're not citizens of america doesn't mean that they won't be affected by the american people's democratic choice of president.

note that i am not suggesting that non-americans should be entitled to vote in the election.

and lastly, i agree with pants, or mumbler, or whoever said that the real difficulty i have with the election race is how George W Bush is so admired among a slender majority of americans. i just really, really don't see it myself.

no vitriol, just saddened resignation.

 

[jane]

Hey jane...are you still eligible to vote in america (I'm just assuming that you have american citizenship but i could be wrong)...

how does the postal vote thing work ? are they counted before the main votes (assuming that they need to be sent before a certain date) or after voting has finished ?

I voted and sent my ballot last week. Absentee ballots must be postmarked by the day of the election, and must arrive no later than ten days after Election Day.

That said, I'm registered in the leftiest place in one of the leftiest states. There were six positions being voted for on my ballot, and only half of them were even being contested by Republicans. It was mostly Democrats, Greens and Independents. So my vote would only really make a difference in the overall popular vote, but, as we know, that doesn't really matter.

The absentee votes will not be tallied for another week and a half, but they might not make enough of a difference.

 

[LMD64]

sorry

uh, what's he got against the Morans? they're a lovely family!

...unless... he meant morons, possibly?

 

[ElderLemon]

I am responding intelligently. But how can I expect you to recognise intelligence? At least I can spell.

Now, don't misunderestimate me, but I just don't understand how it is possible for a 'more moderate' direction for foreign policy to come about as a result of Bush being president. You want the benefits of a Kerry presidency, but you want Bush to do it. You're very confused.

'Determination' is a trait that is useful in a young lad kicking a field goal in the final minute of the fourth quarter. 'Thought' is not a style. It is something Kerry is able to engage in.

What I find particularly hilarious -- and feel free to condemn me for having the sorts of giggle-fits that overcome those who know they are doomed -- is that Bush, if he were capable of thought, would be sitting there, going, 'Oh my GOD, what do I have to DO to piss these people off?!'

On a more serious note, though, it's true that a number of Americans would not vote on foreign policy issues, or on what they would recognise as such. They have been force-fed (and say what you will, most Americans don't even know about accessing other viewpoints in other forms of media) an idea, not that the US has turned the world against them, but that 'Everyone is against us, we only have each other now.' And so vote only for US self-interest. This is still voting on a foreign policy issue, it's just that it's called 'domestic security' so American voters will pay attention.

I don't buy into this notion that "Kerry-Is-Bright-Bush-Is-Thick". Both are intelligent men. Now I would agree that Kerry is exceptionally intelligent, although this may have been a handicap in a way as he initially had difficulty establishing a rapport with the voters, whereas Bush had a more voter-friendly style. Of course, that was turned on its head in the first debate, when Bush appeared edgy, and Kerry got his points across well.

As regard their contrasting styles - it's a case you say tomatoes, etc. Republicans might say Bush is determined, and Kerry is a ditherer; Democrats might say Bush is arrogant, and Kerry is more thoughtful. Different perspectives. I actually don't have much of an opinion to be honest.

 

[TenRabbits]

I read some very good article somewhere (probably the Guardian) that said that it would be a lot simpler if the US was not an English speaking nation, as we are much further removed from the average American than we are from the Average German for example.

America is huge though - and every opinion is represented there (I can't really fault that America is its own biggest critic) but above all, speaking as someone with a lot of relatives over there, Americans LOVE America.

Seems like this can be manipulated easily unfortunately.

 

[oh shit]

http://www.ilovekarlrove.com/

i just made my first photoshop!

it's crap.

 

[P. Littbarski]

I voted and sent my ballot last week. Absentee ballots must be postmarked by the day of the election, and must arrive no later than ten days after Election Day.

That said, I'm registered in the leftiest place in one of the leftiest states. There were six positions being voted for on my ballot, and only half of them were even being contested by Republicans. It was mostly Democrats, Greens and Independents. So my vote would only really make a difference in the overall popular vote, but, as we know, that doesn't really matter.

The absentee votes will not be tallied for another week and a half, but they might not make enough of a difference.

It's a crazy system...so how can somebody be declared a winner when there are still tonnes of postal votes, provisional votes (if somebody was prevented from voting - which is a nuts concept anyway - but disputed it and get to case this type of vote which may or may not be counted) to be taken into account.

Is it not safe to say that this election is far from over...

 

[veryslowey]

I don't buy into this notion that "Kerry-Is-Bright-Bush-Is-Thick". Both are intelligent men.

 

[ElderLemon]

Lizzie dude, I was implying that it was a bad thing that you were using youth defence style tactics, duh

Elder Lemon, I can't believe that you're talking about Bush's pro-life stance as a reason to vote for him when he is plainly and clearly responsible for the deaths of thousands of innocent people in Iraq (anyone got the numbers?). You speak of the Iraq situation as some kind of casual mistake, when it is clearly a pre-determined brutish, immoral, cowardly act. A facile pro-life stance by Bush is, and always has been, a vote-getter. Regardless of whether you're for it or against it, it was incidental as an issue in this election - as little as, as you say, the death penalty.

As I've said above, I didn't agree with the Iraqi invasion, and I don't agree with it now. You're right that abortion wasn't a headline issue, but that's because those who do prioritise 'moral issues' (i.e. pro-lifers, pro-choicers, pro-gay-marriage, anti-gay-marriage, etc.) were already to wedded to Bush or Kerry from the word go. Neither candidate raised the issue of abortion as it wouldn'y have won them any extra votes, and it might have alienated moderate or undecided voters. But it was one of the primary determinants in voter choice. The Death penalty on the other hand was not opposed by either candidate.

 

[Pantone247]

I don't buy into this notion that "Kerry-Is-Bright-Bush-Is-Thick". Both are intelligent men.

I really think we have to get over this idea that Bush is a stupid monkey man who actively enjoys killing Iraqis... it's so purile and childish to rant on about a cartoon bad guy type image of Bush. We have to get real and look at why he is in power. To my mind this election had way more to do with making America safe for big corporations then against terrorist attacks.

Secondly if all the democratic supporters are so sore go back to april or march this year and a man called Howard Dean. The biggest mistake made was not giving this man the democratic ticket.

 

[oh shit]

As I've said above, I didn't agree with the Iraqi invasion, and I don't agree with it now. You're right that abortion wasn't a headline issue, but that's because those who do prioritise 'moral issues' (i.e. pro-lifers, pro-choicers, pro-gay-marriage, anti-gay-marriage, etc.) were already to wedded to Bush or Kerry from the word go. Neither candidate raised the issue of abortion as it wouldn'y have won them any extra votes, and it might have alienated moderate or undecided voters. But it was one of the primary determinants in voter choice. The Death penalty on the other hand was not opposed by either candidate.

yeah but individual states legislate on the death penalty. do you really think federal government should treat abortion differently on the basis of RELIGION?

 

[jane]

I don't buy into this notion that "Kerry-Is-Bright-Bush-Is-Thick". Both are intelligent men. Now I would agree that Kerry is exceptionally intelligent, although this may have been a handicap in a way as he initially had difficulty establishing a rapport with the voters, whereas Bush had a more voter-friendly style. Of course, that was turned on its head in the first debate, when Bush appeared edgy, and Kerry got his points across well.

As regard their contrasting styles - it's a case you say tomatoes, etc. Republicans might say Bush is determined, and Kerry is a ditherer; Democrats might say Bush is arrogant, and Kerry is more thoughtful. Different perspectives. I actually don't have much of an opinion to be honest.

You do seem to have an opinion, actually.

I don't care much about the fact that Bush is said to have an IQ greater than that of a tom-AH-to. He's still an inarticulate little clown.

Yeah, I mean, I can see why Americans could 'relate' to Bush. After all, life was the same for so many of us growing up. My dad was also head of the CIA, ambassador to China, vice-president for eight years, and president for four years. We used to wipe our asses with money. Well, that's a lie, actually. We had the Mexican maid do it. I totally relate to that guy, right down to my daddy buying my way into Yale, where I spent four years passed out in a bathtub with a coke whore on my lap. It ruled!

Anyway, I know Kerry, too, comes from money, but at least he doesn't pretend he's a trailer park redneck from Texas, not a multi-gazillionaire daddy's boy from Connecticut.

As for it being somehow 'unfair' -- as you seem to imply -- that Kerry's wicked smaht, why not? Why do Americans vote for the guy they'd like to go hunting with, rather than one who can speak clearly in public, and knows stuff?

Have you ever read this story?

http://instruct.westvalley.edu/lafave/hb.html

It's what happens when no one is allowed to be more intelligent than anyone else.

Anyway, could you PLEASE explain why and how Bush being pro-life overrides everything else? I'm genuinely curious.

 

[LMD64]

I really think we have to get over this idea that Bush is a stupid monkey man who actively enjoys killing Iraqis... it's so purile and childish to rant on about a cartoon bad guy type image of Bush. We have to get real and look at why he is in power. To my mind this election had way more to do with making America safe for big corporations then against terrorist attacks.

Secondly if all the democratic supporters are so sore go back to april or march this year and a man called Howard Dean. The biggest mistake made was not giving this man the democratic ticket.

agreed, dean would have been a stronger candidate than kerry. but they didn;t like him... because he was too angry? some blame to be laid at the door of the democrats for (once again) not picking a strong enough candidate, perchance?

eg. dole - conceeded the 2000 election because he didn't want to weaken the institution of the Presidency, thus wrestling defeat from within the jaws of victory.

it's almost like the democrats don't actually want an overly strong leader for president, and so elect a weak, innoffensive candidate, who is too wishy washy to actually want to win the election, heaven forfend. not that kerry is weak per say, he just doesn't have the (incomprehensible) appeal that Bush seems to have.

 

[ElderLemon]

yeah but individual states legislate on the death penalty. do you really think federal government should treat abortion differently on the basis of RELIGION?

As a pro-lifer, I obviously don't feel abortion should be legal. I also think that the death penalty should be illegal. Of course, in the US you have a division between State law and Federal law, but as far I'm concerned, both should be illegal. Of course, it's not that simple - there's very little chance of the death penalty being made illegal without a huge shift in public opinion, and if Roe Vs. Wade were to be overturned both liberals and conservatives would have to make some compromises on their respective positions.

 

[LMD64]

what happens when no one is allowed to be more intelligent than anyone else.

“Gee –” said Liam, “I could tell that one was a doozy.”

have to spread the love round before i can rep you again, but.

 

[jane]

As a pro-lifer, I obviously don't feel abortion should be legal. I also think that the death penalty should be illegal. Of course, in the US you have a division between State law and Federal law, but as far I'm concerned, both should be illegal. Of course, it's not that simple - there's very little chance of the death penalty being made illegal without a huge shift in public opinion, and if Roe Vs. Wade were to be overturned both liberals and conservatives would have to make some compromises on their respective positions.

Okay, but you still haven't made it clear why you think it's more important to support Bush for his pro-life stance than to be against him as president for all the shit he's done. Especially since it seems, for you, also to cancel out the fact that Bush, as governor of Texas, executed more criminals than any other governor in history.

I believe in the sanctity of human life, which is why I believe I can be trusted to make decisions about my own body. Both of my parents are pro-choice, and they had two intelligent pro-choice kids, both of whom love children and want families of our own someday. We'd just like to make that decision for ourselves.

Why is being against my freedom of choice so much more important to you than feeding and housing the poor?

 

[jane]

“Gee –” said Liam, “I could tell that one was a doozy.”

have to spread the love round before i can rep you again, but.

Ha ha, I keep trying to give you rep points, and it still won't let me!

 

[ElderLemon]

You do seem to have an opinion, actually.

I don't care much about the fact that Bush is said to have an IQ greater than that of a tom-AH-to. He's still an inarticulate little clown.

Yeah, I mean, I can see why Americans could 'relate' to Bush. After all, life was the same for so many of us growing up. My dad was also head of the CIA, ambassador to China, vice-president for eight years, and president for four years. We used to wipe our asses with money. Well, that's a lie, actually. We had the Mexican maid do it. I totally relate to that guy, right down to my daddy buying my way into Yale, where I spent four years passed out in a bathtub with a coke whore on my lap. It ruled!

Anyway, I know Kerry, too, comes from money, but at least he doesn't pretend he's a trailer park redneck from Texas, not a multi-gazillionaire daddy's boy from Connecticut.

As for it being somehow 'unfair' -- as you seem to imply -- that Kerry's wicked smaht, why not? Why do Americans vote for the guy they'd like to go hunting with, rather than one who can speak clearly in public, and knows stuff?

Have you ever read this story?

http://instruct.westvalley.edu/lafave/hb.html

It's what happens when no one is allowed to be more intelligent than anyone else.

Anyway, could you PLEASE explain why and how Bush being pro-life overrides everything else? I'm genuinely curious.

I didn't imply that it was unfair that Kerry was 'wicked smaht' (You were saying something about my spelling?). What I said was that he originally had difficulty connecting with voters. A given rule of politics anywhere is that an intelligent politician who wears his intelligence easily will always play better with voters than an intelligent politician who likes to flex his intellectual muscles.

As I've said above, the exit polls showed 'moral issues' was the most important issue for 22% of all voters. In other words, 25 million voters yesterday cast their vote for George Bush or John Kerry due to their feelings on abortion, gay marriage or other 'moral issues'.