election (5 Viewers)

[veryslowey]

___

I don't think 'hot dogs' are a substitute for 'breakfast rolls' - I was merely balancing Spar and Centra's contrasting styles. Look it, I personally hope that neo-con influence in the area of breakfast policy is diminished, and a more moderate view is brought to this area.

 

[billygannon]

Jesus, at least Eleder Lemon has an opinion and not a lot of angry rethoric. The 51% of Americans who all voted for Bush didn't do it cuase they are foriegn hating religious zealots, as much as you'd like to think they are. They are people who feel he is the best man for the job, or at least not the worst man for the job.

Kerry didin't get in, because at the end of the day he was a shit candidate, in any other election he wouldn't have even got on the ticket. The only thing he had going for him is he wasn't Bush...

In fairness, Kerry is a shit candidate.
And both the Senate and Congress are now Republican, so even if Kerry got in he wouldn't have much to work with.

I reckon that the majority of that 51% of Americans are sticking it to the world.
I don't think they've the right to, considering the decisions the American government make actually affect the rest of the world in a profound manner.

 

[snakybus]

check out Latex Lizzie using "Youth Defence" style tactics

 

[P. Littbarski]

on a slightly unrelated note...I think the Guardian campaign to write to a voter in Ohio was also an extremely arrogant and foolish ploy...they called it a "Democratic Toolkit" (George Orwell would have been proud)...and this has backfired and probably will lead more people to vote FOR Bush then against him.

No one likes being told what to do..Imagine people from all over the world sending letters to Irish households in which they explained why THEY think people should not vote for Bertie and FF. Imagine the backlash against foreigners trying to interfere in OUR democratic process... I don't think it would go down to well in our own backyard.

 

[oh shit]

thanks tom.

scroll down, enjoy

 

[MDR]

There was a reallt high turnout in this election, and Bush won. Does that not tell us that people were quite keen on keeping him where he is, for whatever reason?

Kerry shows the problem with getting a senator to stand for election - good legislator/good debator, but maybe someone with a governorship behind them knows how to pitch their personal appeal a bit better.

 

[taubstumm]

I know Kerry supporters are sore at him losing, but there is no point in shouting at me, as I'm not a Bush cheerleader, and I've no intention of responding to the personal abuse thrown in my direction. If you can't respond intelligently to views different from your own, then just don't respond.

i don't think anyone here is a kerry supporter. americans had a choice between insanity and even more insanity, and went for the latter.

i'm not trying to be abusive in saying this; it just seems that a rational human being with access to some basic facts (and who isn't paralysed with fear or drunk with patriotism) would not vote for george w bush in a million years.

 

[ElderLemon]

What are the moral issues that cause you to support Bush, btw?

Well specifically abortion - I'm pro-life. People have mentioned the death penalty and gay marriage. I am in favour of Gay Civil Unions - I think they would be a big step forward here in Ireland. I'm against the death penalty and I always have been. I hope that Bush does not renege on his promise to introduce Gay Civil Unions in america, but let's face it no matter who won - Bush or Kerry - there wasn't going to be any change on the death penalty.

 

[jane]

It should be noted that 'moral values' was the top issue amongst respondnts in the exit polls last night - so therefore, yes, for a lot of people the candidates stand on moral issues was an important factor in their voting choice; similarly for many others it wasn't. A vote cast for either candidate wasn't somehow diminished because 'moral issues' was the primary concern of the voter.

I don't think 'determination' is a substitute for 'thought' - I was merely balancing Bush and Kerry's contrasting styles. Look it, I personally hope that neo-con influence in the area of foreign policy is diminished, and a more moderate view is brought to this area.

I know Kerry supporters are sore at him losing, but there is no point in shouting at me, as I'm not a Bush cheerleader, and I've no intention of responding to the personal abuse thrown in my direction. If you can't respond intelligently to views different from your own, then just don't respond.

I am responding intelligently. But how can I expect you to recognise intelligence? At least I can spell.

Now, don't misunderestimate me, but I just don't understand how it is possible for a 'more moderate' direction for foreign policy to come about as a result of Bush being president. You want the benefits of a Kerry presidency, but you want Bush to do it. You're very confused.

'Determination' is a trait that is useful in a young lad kicking a field goal in the final minute of the fourth quarter. 'Thought' is not a style. It is something Kerry is able to engage in.

What I find particularly hilarious -- and feel free to condemn me for having the sorts of giggle-fits that overcome those who know they are doomed -- is that Bush, if he were capable of thought, would be sitting there, going, 'Oh my GOD, what do I have to DO to piss these people off?!'

On a more serious note, though, it's true that a number of Americans would not vote on foreign policy issues, or on what they would recognise as such. They have been force-fed (and say what you will, most Americans don't even know about accessing other viewpoints in other forms of media) an idea, not that the US has turned the world against them, but that 'Everyone is against us, we only have each other now.' And so vote only for US self-interest. This is still voting on a foreign policy issue, it's just that it's called 'domestic security' so American voters will pay attention.

 

[Latex lizzie]

check out Latex Lizzie using "Youth Defence" style tactics

watch me go! it's the stuff that americans dont get to see. Prescision strikes me arse.

 

[It Will Never Last]

Slagging someone off, ignoring them and their opinions because you disagree with them is not exactly productive is it ? Without dialogue you're pissing against the wind.

Considering the fact that 50%+ of the posters on thumper hate ms.b and continually tell her to fuck off, I'd give her some slack for displaying similar sentiments.

In fairness, EL is entitled to his opinion, and anyone on thumped is entitled to use the ignore function to spare themselves having to read his output. I don't think its too helpful, but thats the way the cookie crumbles.

 

[ITalkShite]

Well specifically abortion - I'm pro-life. People have mentioned the death penalty and gay marriage. I am in favour of Gay Civil Unions - I think they would be a big step forward here in Ireland. I'm against the death penalty and I always have been. I hope that Bush does not renege on his promise to introduce Gay Civil Unions in america, but let's face it no matter who won - Bush or Kerry - there wasn't going to be any change on the death penalty.

Can I introduce you to my friend doctor love?

 

[billygannon]

Well specifically abortion - I'm pro-life. People have mentioned the death penalty and gay marriage. I am in favour of Gay Civil Unions - I think they would be a big step forward here in Ireland. I'm against the death penalty and I always have been. I hope that Bush does not renege on his promise to introduce Gay Civil Unions in america, but let's face it no matter who won - Bush or Kerry - there wasn't going to be any change on the death penalty.

So you would have voted for Bush simply because he is Pro-Life.

 

[oh shit]

Well specifically abortion - I'm pro-life. People have mentioned the death penalty and gay marriage. I am in favour of Gay Civil Unions - I think they would be a big step forward here in Ireland. I'm against the death penalty and I always have been. I hope that Bush does not renege on his promise to introduce Gay Civil Unions in america, but let's face it no matter who won - Bush or Kerry - there wasn't going to be any change on the death penalty.

so, if you imagine a moral ladder, and at the top of the moral ladder you place the issue that means most to you and takes precedence over all others, you place abortion (which, by the way, will happen anyway - just not in medical environments) above all else. EVERYTHING else?

how about the consititution of the us? say goodbye to seperation of church and state. both are now pretty badly fucked.

...
argh fuck it. i'm gonna go join the intifada or something useful

 

[jane]

Well specifically abortion - I'm pro-life. People have mentioned the death penalty and gay marriage. I am in favour of Gay Civil Unions - I think they would be a big step forward here in Ireland. I'm against the death penalty and I always have been. I hope that Bush does not renege on his promise to introduce Gay Civil Unions in america, but let's face it no matter who won - Bush or Kerry - there wasn't going to be any change on the death penalty.

Okay, so you'd rather see more people driven into poverty, and more wars waged around the world, than have me be allowed to make a decision about what happens to my body? So you think I should be forced to 'face the consequences' of my 'mistake'? You think children are so disposable that they can fall under the category of 'moral consequences'? No, thank you, sir, I love children too much to bring them into this world under those circumstances, or because you say I have to.

If you care so much about 'life', then why don't you think of the thousands of former foetuses who've been killed since the US invaded Afghanistan?

Anyone got a coat hanger?

See, what that says to me is that the most serious problem on the world agenda is 'what the women are getting up to while we're busy slaughtering innocent people'. Thanks for your concern, and your offer to protect me from myself, but I'm quite capable of making my own judgements.

 

[MDR]

QUOTE=therecklessone]Considering the fact that 50%+ of the posters on thumper hate ms.b and continually tell her to fuck off, I'd give her some slack for displaying similar sentiments.

In fairness, EL is entitled to his opinion, and anyone on thumped is entitled to use the ignore function to spare themselves having to read his output. I don't think its too helpful, but thats the way the cookie crumbles.[/QUOTE]

Exactly, there's no need to panic just because someone expresses a view at odds with the general consesus on this board. It can hardly surprise anyone that there are people who hold the views that elderlemon does, even if - like me - you can't understand why they hold them.

 

[billygannon]

Exactly, there's no need to panic just because someone expresses a view at odds with the general consesus on this board. It can hardly surprise anyone that there are people who hold the views that elderlemon does, even if - like me - you can't understand why they hold them.

But he's a witch!!!!!

 

[rocktopus]

Jane for Presi.|..| dent in 08!

 

[It Will Never Last]

That would have been soooooo much better if it said:

I am ashamed that you are ma fren.

Or even a "have you see him "special.

 

[egg_]

Well specifically abortion - I'm pro-life.

I realise I'm probably repeating a question others have asked using more colourful language but ... do you think abortion is the most important issue of all?