election (7 Viewers)

[ElderLemon]

less hysterics? dead innocent iraqis? what's your background lemon? where are you from etc?

I never said said anything about dead innocent Iraqis - I'm not sure where you get that quote from.

Background? I've no background... I'm not a member of any party or organisation...

 

[taubstumm]

You could well be right. As I've said above, I don't think America should have gone into Iraq. The priority now is getting America out of Iraq - and ensuring that Iraq becomes a stable, democratic country - and in fairness, John Kerry may well have been the better candidate. Ditto for economic policy, I think might have been the better candidate. I personally preferred Bush because of his stance on moral issues.

i'm trying to imagine myself saying "i don't think ireland should have invaded china, but we can't leave until it's stable and democratic" and the like.

invading iraq was insane. at the very best, it has replaced tyranny with chaos.

do we even have to say this? the points being made don't even have a basis in empirical, observable reality, let alone as a political strategy. but everybody knows that, don't they?

 

[egg_]

What are the moral issues that cause you to support Bush, btw?

 

[Latex lizzie]

I am sad today because I really like america. I like its' music its' shows its' books..and now I realised that half the voting public there has been confirmed as having no brain. Either that or the propaganda machine there is so powerfull now that people just cannot make and informed choice. THe brakes are off now..'ole georgey boy must be sitting there thinking "holy shit If they re elected me after all the shit I've done I can get away with anything now. I'm gonna build me a house made out of arabskins and call it freedom tower. THey'll swallow that for sure." I lament.

 

[sarah]

I'd be interested in hearing about the specific moral issues as
well, as the bush administration has managed to break more families
apart, by sending lone parents off to work rather than take care of their
children, by lowering taxes and sending the poor into and even more
desperate financial situation,
by sending their own soldiers into an unnecessary conflict which was based on a complete lie, by bombing the crap out of two countries.
Putting rest of the world at risk by refusing to bow to any of the international regulations regarding the environment and exhaust fumes etc.
I just can't fathom what moral issues are so important to someone that
so many people should suffer as a result??

 

[snakybus]

On the subject of moral issues, I think the fact that Bush was governer of the state with the highest death penalty count in the US pretty much puts that one to bed

on the subject of morality, the fact that Bush and his colleagues have vested interests in big business - and oil - knocks that one on the head

oh and Iraq is a moral issue, a profound one

 

[Pantone247]

Jesus, at least Eleder Lemon has an opinion and not a lot of angry rethoric. The 51% of Americans who all voted for Bush didn't do it cuase they are foriegn hating religious zealots, as much as you'd like to think they are. They are people who feel he is the best man for the job, or at least not the worst man for the job.

Kerry didin't get in, because at the end of the day he was a shit candidate, in any other election he wouldn't have even got on the ticket. The only thing he had going for him is he wasn't Bush...

 

[oh shit]

Either that or the propaganda machine there is so powerfull now that people just cannot make and informed choice.

yes! clearly. fox news called ohio for bush around 5am GMT. that's when i went to bed.

the politics of the past century has been a story of mass media manipulation of "the peoples" of the "free world". everyone should have read the preface to Animal Farm by now (even though it was censored for several decades )

 

[Pantone247]

..and now I realised that half the voting public there has been confirmed as having no brain.

my god... are you drunk?

 

[eamoo]

latex lizzie is hot

 

[veryslowey]

i think someone should have a serious word in george lucas ear about this episode - it is not giong down well with the critics overseas. let's hope there are ewoks in episode III.

 

[jane]

You're right, though. On second thought, I voted for moral issues, too.

Do you know what I think is immoral?

* Millions of Americans without health care.
* Millions of children living in poverty.
* People -- little more than children themselves -- who signed up to the military because it was their only chance at getting out of poverty, and who are now being maimed and killed for the sake of a wealthy few, and for the ego of a howling, buffoonish cowboy.
* The elderly losing all hope of comfortable retirement.
* Government charities being farmed out to religious groups, who are allowed to deny services to those who don't agree to be 'saved'.
* Condemning 'evil' regimes while supporting those in Saudi Arabia and Turkmenistan, where people are boiled alive for expressing dissent.
* The erosion of free speech.
* Denial of voting rights based on race and socio-economic circumstances.

And there are others, but those are just a few.

 

[broken arm]

On the subject of moral issues, I think the fact that Bush was governer of the state with the highest death penalty count in the US pretty much puts that one to bed

on the subject of morality, the fact that Bush and his colleagues have vested interests in big business - and oil - knocks that one on the head

oh and Iraq is a moral issue, a profound one

but but but god hates fags don't forget that.

and the the flakey stance on embronic stem cell research in context of their stance on IVF shows their a-la-carte morality for what it is. ignorant hypocrisy

 

[egg_]

The 51% of Americans who all voted for Bush didn't do it cuase they are foriegn hating religious zealots

I would say a good percentage of them, however, voted Bush because they've been deceived by his propaganda machine. That don't make them any stupider than anyone who owns a Paul Tracy hat, but the result of their being fooled is a lot more scary

 

[billygannon]

I personally preferred Bush because of his stance on moral issues.

Bush's moral issues are informed by his Born-Again Christianity. He made several references to that during his campaign.
However, it's not very Christian ordering the deaths of several thousand people because you want to control oil reserves in a country.

But you're not religious.
So I'm assuming you're pro-life, or that you believe in the Death Penalty, or you believe that making a buck is more important that actually leading a nation responsibly.

 

[Latex lizzie]

How can you have a question about morals..or indeed who to vote for..

 

[MDR]

To be fair to elderlemon, and although I don't agree with him/her, it's the first time thumped has had a pro-bush voice on it that I can remember. You can't just resort to 'are you mad or wha?' reactions.

Incidentally, I'm coming to the view that we irish/Europeans don't really understand the appeal of Bush, or republicans for that matter, to americans (I know i don't). I don't think it's as simple as 'they're all dumb/uninformed/religious zealots'. The republicans have improved their seats in the Senate by 2, possibly more; they've held the majority in the House of Representatives; 11 states have rejected gay marriage; and they seem about to re-elect a republican president. Clearly, something about the republicans is striking a chord in america at the moment, and I believe it's more than instilling fear in them, although I'm at a loss to understand exactly what it is they inspire in people. The best I can guess - and guess only - is that a large portion of america still seems to hold conservative views that were the primary determinant of their vote, rather than the war on Iraq.

 

[Ex-User (250)]

I never said said anything about dead innocent Iraqis - I'm not sure where you get that quote from.

Background? I've no background... I'm not a member of any party or organisation...

i'm hysterical at the idea that bush will probably get in again... i can undertstand how people might come across as hysterical trying to work out your insane reasoning as to why bush should have been re-elected. you just totally flip-flopped by the way.

 

[ElderLemon]

So, wait, you don't think Bush should have gone into Iraq, but you don't blame him, and you would have done the same thing? You already know it was wrong, and yet you would have done it anyway? You would do things you know are wrong just because you think morons will believe you when you make a frowny face?

You can be confident that Bush fucked up on the economy, and you believe has 'determination' as a substitute for 'thought', and knowingly destabilised any chance for peace in the Middle East based on the equivalent validity of 'what someone's brother's friend's girlfriend overheard in a crowded bar', and yet your 'morals' override all of this? No wonder you support Bush!


Frankly, I think that's totally awesome. Seriously.

It should be noted that 'moral values' was the top issue amongst respondnts in the exit polls last night - so therefore, yes, for a lot of people the candidates stand on moral issues was an important factor in their voting choice; similarly for many others it wasn't. A vote cast for either candidate wasn't somehow diminished because 'moral issues' was the primary concern of the voter.

I don't think 'determination' is a substitute for 'thought' - I was merely balancing Bush and Kerry's contrasting styles. Look it, I personally hope that neo-con influence in the area of foreign policy is diminished, and a more moderate view is brought to this area.

I know Kerry supporters are sore at him losing, but there is no point in shouting at me, as I'm not a Bush cheerleader, and I've no intention of responding to the personal abuse thrown in my direction. If you can't respond intelligently to views different from your own, then just don't respond.

 

[sarah]

Jesus, at least Eleder Lemon has an opinion and not a lot of angry rethoric. The 51% of Americans who all voted for Bush didn't do it cuase they are foriegn hating religious zealots, as much as you'd like to think they are. They are people who feel he is the best man for the job, or at least not the worst man for the job.

Kerry didin't get in, because at the end of the day he was a shit candidate, in any other election he wouldn't have even got on the ticket. The only thing he had going for him is he wasn't Bush...

personally I wasn't try to attack elder lemon, and as much as I'd like
to believe it, half of the states cannot be made up of Brain dead hicks,
but since he seems to be pro bush it would be genuinly interesting
to get an insight into the moral issues that would be driving that
half of America to vote for someone I actually think is an insane religious zealot.