Climate change global warming natural disaster freak weather etc. (2 Viewers)

[Space]

Which may have been a mistake to not point out immediately.

I said it at 3.41pm yesterday three hours before I asked about the difference between necessary and unnecessary. Did you miss that post?

 

[ann post]

You asked if it was Ryan who decides - I answered that by pointing out immediately that he was paraphrasing that it said that at the start of his sentence:

Further, that same research tells us...

I was just curious on what the difference was and if someone had decided it.

You then asked me what the criteria for an unnecessary journey was, and i gave you sourced information on what they are deeming necessary rather than try and speculate. If you read what they have deemed the necessary trips then you can see where they are drawing the lines and get a reasonable idea of how they depts are thinking on what is unnecessary.

Given that it's a ministers written question It's highly likely that he* would have consulted incoming legislation and policies to answer the question - which would be informed by the climate action plan annex. the question pre-dated it's publication... ...the work and school commutes are the next big target (i think all this starts around page 183 of the annex, nerds) which you can probably call the necessary.

I answered both your questions straight away using sourcable info.
If I had said 'yoker' i'd be into speculation which when we have Ryan's entire transport/climate/reductions document in public view wouldn't be the best answer i could give you.

 

[magicbastarder]

you appear to be arguing over something you agree on.
is this necessary?

 

[ann post]

you appear to be arguing over something you agree on.
is this necessary?

I refer to my previous statement

Your work situation

This has been on my mind for a couple of days now. We did a job and we were told "no branded clothing" because we were being filmed. Not for tv or anything, just for a "dynamic audio-visual experience for future multi platform marketing use", or some sort of thing like that, which means a child...

thumped.com

 

[Space]

You then asked me what the criteria for an unnecessary journey was, and i gave you sourced information on what they are deeming necessary rather than try and speculate. If you read what they have deemed the necessary trips then you can see where they are drawing the lines and get a reasonable idea of how they depts are thinking on what is unnecessary.

I missed this answer. Where is the sourced information on what they are deeming necessary? Can explain it like I'm 12 or something because I don't understand what you've said or quoted that would give me the answer. You've also said that it is "Very likely from reading the document that any one of the various body representatives working on the CAP have made this subdivision in journey data and it will be evidence based." So it seems to me, and I may be wrong, but the subdivision (your word) between what is necessary and unnecessary is not clear yet but will be evidence based when it is presented and that's ok.

You did answer re does Ryan decide that's fair enough. I was then curious on what a necessary journey was so I asked that follow up question. I'm not trying to catch you out with any of this. I'm genuinely curious on the criteria for necessary and unnecessary journeys.

 

[Space]

you appear to be arguing over something you agree on.
is this necessary?

Who knows.

 

[ann post]

So it seems to me, and I may be wrong, but the subdivision (your word) between what is necessary and unnecessary is not clear yet but will be evidence based when it is presented and that's ok.

Yeah that's pretty much my prediction, and I don't think it'll be in any way a huge consideration. It was just there as part of wider answer on the why luas not free tomorrow morning question that Bríd Smith asked..

The CAP* document transport chapter (from page 183 onward) just doesn't really care about why people travel, but it cares over and over about school runs and getting out of cars, and getting cars out of towns and cities.

The read between the lines I get from this is that with whatever number crunching is done to date the yoker/random trips dont matter - they only matter as carbon increase in the subset of predictions where you make transport free and do no extra routes.

Anywhoo - here's how i'd see whats available at present and my logic.

The graphic from earlier in the thread. the bottom right hand corner - the last three cells under total abatement.

This table is them explaining how you are going to get close to a 50% carbon reduction in Irish transport.

They only care about daily trips and education (E to E) trips.

To me thats gotta be close to a visible sourced line drawn between the necessary and uneccesary.

*I should point out at this stage that the govt site admins have changed the document links a few times. And the Annex is now an annex and CAP doc is screengrabbed above.

 

[Space]

Yeah that's pretty much my prediction, and I don't think it'll be in any way a huge consideration. It was just there as part of wider answer on the why luas not free tomorrow morning question that Bríd Smith asked..

The CAP* document transport chapter (from page 183 onward) just doesn't really care about why people travel, but it cares over and over about school runs and getting out of cars, and getting cars out of towns and cities.

The read between the lines I get from this is that with whatever number crunching is done to date the yoker/random trips dont matter - they only matter as carbon increase in the subset of predictions where you make transport free and do no extra routes.

Anywhoo - here's how i'd see whats available at present and my logic.

The graphic from earlier in the thread. the bottom right hand corner - the last three cells under total abatement.

This table is them explaining how you are going to get close to a 50% carbon reduction in Irish transport.

They only care about daily trips and education (E to E) trips.

To me thats gotta be close to a visible sourced line drawn between the necessary and uneccesary.

*I should point out at this stage that the govt site admins have changed the document links a few times. And the Annex is now an annex and CAP doc is screengrabbed above.

Sound thanks for that.

 

[magicbastarder]

IrishCycle.com -- “Unnecessary trips” research which Ryan referred to is published by NTA

— Removing fares “would reduce transport poverty” but have a limited impact on car use.– Investment in capacity, frequency and coverage of public transport is more impactful…

irishcycle.com

 

[ann post]

the case studies - page 20

FFPT implementation was followed by an increase in ridership from 3.8 million passengers in 2010 (the year before the FFPT was introduced) to 6.9 mil passengers in 2017. However, many trips are for only three stops which previously would have been made walking

Thats the actual reference in the above thing that makes sense of the phrase.

so rather than yoker, they mean really just not walking a short distance.

 

[Space]

So any chance of trains in Donegal?

 

[Unicron]

The big driver of change in my travel habits (am north kildare based and 3.5 miles from my nearest bus stop) would be a park and ride, they wouldn't necessarily have to provide too much in the addition of services (maybe they face capacity issues) but somewhere already on or near a route around Maynooth or Celbridge would really reduce my need and motivation for driving to Dublin when I'm not doing it for work.

 

[magicbastarder]

spitballing here, but is there enough capacity on the trains currently to take the extra passenger load a park and ride development would create?

 

[Unicron]

spitballing here, but is there enough capacity on the trains currently to take the extra passenger load a park and ride development would create?

This is I suppose the argument for not using the budget to make the existing service free, better to spend it on improving existing bad services/adding additional services and making them good.

 

[magicbastarder]

to be fair, there are definite plans to electrify the maynooth line and add more rolling stock.

 

[ann post]

So any chance of trains in Donegal?

I want one from galway to letterk, open timetable depending on my mood.

 

[magicbastarder]

i wonder what condition the train line is in inishowen; they're never going to reopen it as a train line, but could make a greenway?

 

[ann post]

spitballing here, but is there enough capacity on the trains currently to take the extra passenger load a park and ride development would create?

The one at oranmore went from unused to over capacity in a year. People queue online to get season tickets like it's Glastonbury. They approved cash for a passing loop this year and a car park upgrade. The numbers justified the expansion. It'll speed up the Dublin line too and probably end up like a dart type thing. It seems at present if they can prove demand the DOT will upgrade in tandem. So the answer is a bit no and a bit yes?

 

[JohnnyRaz]

£3.5m of Tory donations linked to pollution and climate denial, says report

Millions given to party and MPs last year came from entities linked to fossil fuels, high-polluting industries and climate denial

www.theguardian.com

 

[ann post]

i wonder what condition the train line is in inishowen; they're never going to reopen it as a train line, but could make a greenway?

the line from inch island got made into part of the bird sanctuary, i've cycled it though it's not huge. some greenway work on inch island i think too. heading up towards fahan to buncrana i suspect it's actually just the road now. dont know about further north but i've been there lots and not seen any sign of it that i remember