General election 2020 (2 Viewers)

[ann post]

I'm sure i said it earlier in the thread over the years, the Greens need to be talking to all of Ireland, they need to answer every question with a response that talks about why they're good for the lives of farmers.

Their PR is pretty awful, but i'm not sure how much of that is

A: FFG PR megamachine making sure they don't get airtime when they do something good
B: keeping the auld head down to get a few decent bits of legislation across rather than making the govt look like shit all day and then having to sit in an office with them.

But yes - Farmers hate them because they represent the reality check that that they don't want - from what i've gathered living in the sticks for a few years farming is now mostly renting land and contracting huge tractors to farm the land and betting on the price of product annually while holding down a civil service job and getting a few grants to reduce the risk or being a megafarmer - organics being a little slice of the pie of course.

You see a protest by farmers now and all the machinery is 80000 - 200000 euro tractors that eat carbon and stop them having to do any manual labour. Midsummer here i can hear those things coming along around 2 mins before they pass the house because the turbo is sucking air into the combustion chamber at jet engine levels, mixing it with diesel and churning it out. I'm sure you hear them down your way, you dont hear an engine, you just hear constant air intake. And thats before you even look at how pointless beef is. Everything is petrochemicals. Farmers hate the greens as a policy because it means they have to look in the mirror while talking out of both side of their mouths. The greens kinda have to tell them that 200,000 euro worth of massey ferguson hardware is essentially a big lump of scrap in the longterm just like they have to tell me i've got 4 grands worth of scrap in the driveway and its pretty much unsellable.

 

[Lili Marlene]

I mean, my vague idea to fix everything is wind turbines out at sea, a European wind network all connected since the wind is always blowing SOMEWHERE, nuclear power as backup in the long term, a move away from GDP as the end goal of all things (this is an unpopular position amongst many on the, i guess, tankie left who see "degrowth" as hippy vegan nonsense but I'm convinced by it if you actually read the literature, it just needs a better name), and life lived well as a goal.

Between building houses directly to all the off shore wind stuff and nuclear stuff, not to mention all the associated paperwork, there's no end of meaningful jobs out there for the lads who love to brag about real, hard, physical work. Farmers will adapt if there isn't a gun held to their head, and theyre not being left destitute as people lord "bad decisions" over them, they've done it before. There's endless scope for less intensive farming methods as well, I'm always hearing farmers complain that they'd love to do more but they're penalized for it by various regulations that have not been written with the environment in mind.

Plus, plenty of room for markets on top of all this for those who just fucking love winning competitions but the George Harrison's of the world would have to accept a high millionaire tax, sorry lads, if you love it so much you aren't doing for the money anyway. Taming the financial markets is no simply task though, I know.

 

[egg_]

@ann post as the only green party defender on here, how are you on their nuclear power policy?

/me looks miffed

I think the Greens trying to befriend the farmers is probably futile. I'd expect the IFA to be mostly run by big grain/dairy who will spin a story about Them vs Us, and it's almost impossible for the Greens to win over that audience on a public stage. I think the only way would be to do it on a local stage instead - actual green types getting to know actual farmers - but I don't think the party is big enough for that, so the only realistic option is to wield the small bit of political power they have while they're in govt and try and get laws passed.

 

[Lili Marlene]

/me looks miffed

I think the Greens trying to befriend the farmers is probably futile. I'd expect the IFA to be mostly run by big grain/dairy who will spin a story about Them vs Us, and it's almost impossible for the Greens to win over that audience on a public stage. I think the only way would be to do it on a local stage instead - actual green types getting to know actual farmers - but I don't think the party is big enough for that, so the only realistic option is to wield the small bit of political power they have while they're in govt and try and get laws passed.

Pretty much agree, yeah.

 

[egg_]

A great opportunity for the greens would be some scandal in FFG. Support the govt in a no-confidence vote in return for tougher climate targets

 

[ann post]

Looking at the twitter saying 'if the greens dont walk out of this they are doomed/nothing/epic fail lol discourse I suspect if they walked on this a few farmery politicians would sign off on basically no emissions targets for farmers under the table in preparation for the coming election ?

 

[egg_]

Looking at the twitter saying 'if the greens dont walk out of this they are doomed/nothing/epic fail lol discourse I suspect if they walked on this a few farmery politicians would sign off on basically no emissions targets for farmers under the table in preparation for the coming election ?

I suspect that too

The Greens are fucked in the next election one way or the other. They'd be mad to walk out of anything

 

[ann post]

The Greens are fucked in the next election one way or the other. They'd be mad to walk out of anything

IF they hold out for about a month both the climate bill and the circular economy bill will be passed, and even if we get a full on FF govt next time they have to either roll those back to great public outcry or operate within the confines of them - either way we actually have framework for a bit of progress that we didn't have before.

I don't know if it'll go as bad as you think though - they've done a fair bit at ground level (in this locality) so I don't think on balance people will see a wasted vote.

Watch me be wrong.

 

[magicbastarder]

The reason many (including me) wanted to see the greens go into coalition was based on the 'if they're not in they can't win' premise, and they've (to a certain extent) been able to get things done. What happens next though is key; I do have a bit of sympathy for the 'they should walk' line because if they can't influence the outcome at this crucial (well, most important yet) part of the process, it raises the question about what benefit they are. Perhaps the biggest advantage they have simply is the threat of collapsing the coalition, possibly the only leverage they have to get FF and FG to listen, so I guess it's natural for people to talk about that as being a tactic.

 

[ann post]

if they can't influence the outcome at this crucial (well, most important yet) part of the process, it raises the question about what benefit they are.

ehhhhhhh?

 

[magicbastarder]

I mean the part of the process where agricultural outputs are being decided.

 

[ann post]

I mean the part of the process where agricultural outputs are being decided.

The outputs are being decided because GP passed the climate bill.
They have already secured 22% of the farmers and are now trying to negotiate that reduction to higher number.
People are saying they should leave govt because they cant increase on 22%.
I'd say that they got 22% and are in fighting round the clock for more shows the benifit.

 

[magicbastarder]

fair point.
i've seen a few tweets doing the rounds recently where rural people have been bemoaning the 'rural ireland means farmers' sort of vibe that many have obviously picked up on (i am unqualified to make a stab at how justified that reaction is); perhaps that's the sort of vibe the GP could pick up on? though a few tweets doesn't mean the sentiment is widespread.

 

[egg_]

That's actually an interesting one. Surrounded by farmland here, but not all farmers ... though maybe a majority would have a cousin or a cousin-in-law (or closer) farming

 

[ann post]

Another manifestor enters the room.

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[therealjohnny]

In the fields around whre I live you might see a herd of about 20 or 30 cows. Compared to where I was brought up I thought this was "large scale dairy farming".

This guy has over 700! he is hardly representative of the majority, right?

https://www.rte.ie/news/connacht/2022/0728/1312812-farming-emissions-reaction/

 

[Lili Marlene]

In the fields around whre I live you might see a herd of about 20 or 30 cows. Compared to where I was brought up I thought this was "large scale dairy farming".

This guy has over 700! he is hardly representative of the majority, right?

https://www.rte.ie/news/connacht/2022/0728/1312812-farming-emissions-reaction/

Is this not similar to the Keelings flying in farm workers from Bulgaria stuff we had with the pandemic, where the reality is that most profitable farming in our age is done by a few massive fiefdoms and everyone else is living off the CAP?

I suppose a farmer like that should be supported in a transition, massive headache to do of course, but I'm sure so was electrifying the country.

All red meat for FF/FG to blame the Greens and do nothing.

 

[Unicron]

In the fields around whre I live you might see a herd of about 20 or 30 cows. Compared to where I was brought up I thought this was "large scale dairy farming".

This guy has over 700! he is hardly representative of the majority, right?

https://www.rte.ie/news/connacht/2022/0728/1312812-farming-emissions-reaction/

My neightbour is a full-time dairy farmer. A good one, I reckon his herd is about 30 head.

 

[magicbastarder]

IIRC most beef farming in ireland is done by part time farmers. but i see grumblings on what little i'm exposed to on twitter that the IFA mainly represent the large full time farmers.
dairy is the only farming in ireland where on average subsidies form less than 50% of the farmer's income (also IIRC, would have to fact check that)

 

[magicbastarder]

sure it's an easy mistake to make.

Minister 'misinterpreted the requirements' after failure to declare second house in Longford

Robert Troy said he had been “under the impression” that only property in his possession at the end of a given year needed to be declared

www.irishexaminer.com

"The sale price of the house to the Westmeath council was between €30,000 and €50,000 greater than other properties selling in the same estate at the time.

No other house in the development has sold for more than €211,000 in the interim."