Violence, god help us (1 Viewer)

[egg_]

Spinning off from the sexism thread ... when I were a lad there was a very real culture of violence against children in Ireland (and, obviously, of sexual abuse too, but that's not what I wanna ask about here). Pretty much everyone's parents slapped them, and corporal punishment in schools was only made illegal when I was in 4th class (the class my older daughter is in now). I remember lads "getting the leather", and even long after it was illegal when I was in secondary school teachers would pull fella's hair and ears and the like. My physics teacher (who went on to be principal, and later to jail for kiddie fiddling) used to pull your head back and hit you in the face, left bruises too but only on boarders I guess so their parents wouldn't know.

One principal would clout you on the arse with a hurl if he caught you sitting on a desk. Bizarrely, we all kinda saw that particular one as a laugh at the time

Anyway ... I presume that none of this shit goes on anymore - in my kids' primary school everyone is very nicey nicey, and I'm guessing that any teacher that laid a hand on a kid now would be in serious trouble. When did it all stop? And why? And how? There was no campaign by children or their parents, at least not that I remember, instead it just died out. Thoughts?

 

[Squiggle]

Fear of lawsuit is probably a big one. Child protection policies are in place in most (if not all) schools.

Even parents, like mine, who felt that capital punishment was sometimes appropriate, didn't approve of it being administered on their children by teachers etc. There was a huge outcry in the primary school we went to after one of the teachers cut the legs of some of her students (boys around 8 years of age) including my brother by hitting them with a steel edged ruler. That they were getting unfairly punished for her own son's bad behaviour was a factor, but it was still the view of all the parents that a teacher should not use physical punishment, and certainly should not be leaving children bruised or bleeding.

I think most children are now aware that it is not ok for adults to touch them, or hit them and will speak up about it.

 

[rettucs]

Anyway ... I presume that none of this shit goes on anymore - in my kids' primary school everyone is very nicey nicey, and I'm guessing that any teacher that laid a hand on a kid now would be in serious trouble. When did it all stop? And why? And how? There was no campaign by children or their parents, at least not that I remember, instead it just died out. Thoughts?

they were probably told at one of those in-service courses that they'd have the holes sued off them if they laid a finger on a kid.

I was a cheeky fucker in primary school. I remember my parents giving my teacher permission to put manners on me if needed.

didn't do me any harm.

 

[Denny Oubidoux]

I finished primary school on 1989 and it was still going on then. I'd imagine there was a period after teachers were no longer allowed hit kids in which parents came around to the idea that teachers weren't allowed hit their kids and wouldn't stand for it.

One of my teachers broke the thick end of a snooker cue over a lads head one day and his father did come in. The teacher was clearly shitting it but I don't think it went any further than that.

 

[nooleen]

I was a cheeky fucker in primary school. I remember my parents giving my teacher permission to put manners on me if needed.

didn't do me any harm.

didn't do you any good either

 

[egg_]

Fear of lawsuit is probably a big one.

Yeah ... but it went on for at least 10 years after it was made illegal, that's what's puzzling me (was made illegal in 1982)

 

[snakybus]

capital punishment is the death penalty, Squiggle

 

[nooleen]

my brother was only born in 1982 and there was a bit of mild physical chastisement going on throughout his school years..things like throwing chalk or dusters or a clip round the head. no actual slaps or rulerings. i'd say the old-school teachers just took a while to break the habit of a lifetime.

i only got hit by a teacher once (a mild clip on the head with a duster, in junior infants) and my mother was raging

 

[MacDara]

I heard stories about the school across the road from me, kettle leads and whatnot, but there was no physicality in any classroom that I remember (we're talking primary school from '85 to '93). The worst was the occasional duster fucked from the blackboard to the back wall, shock-and-awe stuff to get the attention of the arseholes in the class. That and there was one teacher in secondary school, a priest, who yelled and screamed like you wouldn't believe, even got red in the face over the most minor infraction, but came across as the nicest guy ever outside of the classroom. Huh.

 

[Squiggle]

capital punishment is the death penalty, Squiggle

Pre coffee posting after a sleepless night with a weirdly hyper 2 year old = freudian slip?

 

[snakybus]

Here's a song about it, egg. It won't enlighten you any but anyway sure. #pimpmyshit #everycloud

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[CinnamonBoy]

Left primary school in 1994. Was always a bit of argy bargy between the teachers and pupils, as @billygannon will attest to. Clip round the ear, a firm flick to the shoulder. Par for the course.

Didn't do any of us any harm (except maybe the half dozen or so lads who subsequently died of drugs overdoses)

 

[billygannon]

When I was school, and this is true, our teacher had a machine gun on his desk - like one of these:

Any nonsense would result in a round of bullets being fired at the classroom. Thankfully we sat in trenches and most of us knew when to duck. There were a few who'd get shot and die but that was just part of growing up.

But that wasn't the worst. Our teacher insisted Lent was 400 days long - and that there was a typo in the Bible. He'd insist we had to give up food between sunrise and sunset. Every Friday he'd tie sweets to long pieces of string and dangle them around his desk. All of us would be starving so we had to resist the temptation of taking one. Those who couldn't resist would often get caught up in the rolls of barbed wire around this desk.

Of course, when I say "desk" I mean "gun turret".

I say all this, but we were largely happy. The gangrene was probably the worst part of childhood but the nameless Indian kid I shared by ditch with had some clever ways of dealing with it. He died in fifth class - he couldn't spell "fornication".

 

[GO]

we use to get slapped around big time in St.Davids CBS Artane

Half the teachers were paedos and the other half were just sociopaths

didnt do me any harm

 

[Anthony]

We have a great laugh here when I tell the lads about how I used to get the ruler across the knuckles or across the palm of the hand. They think it's hilarious. They're constantly handing me the ruler and asking to be hit so they can know what it felt like. I never do it though, I give them the ol'fella fake hit. Then they try to do it to each other. They have no concept of that type of fear or punishment.

 

[Denny Oubidoux]

Were there leather straps that were made specifically for teachers use on children or was "the strap" for something else originally?

 

[snakybus]

it was a belt, lol

 

[JohnnyRaz]

Were there leather straps that were made specifically for teachers use on children or was "the strap" for something else originally?

no it actually was a specific strap. some of the older brothers in CBS portlousey used to still have them (but not use them) in the 80s or so im told.

as for myself - mild physical abuse in primary from 84-92, one or two actual pervert sadist bastards in secondary, and a couple of shouters also.

 

[egg_]

I got a clout from a nun on my very first day of junior infants, for doing a 7 backwards. These days in junior infants they only go up to 5

 

[egg_]

@JohnnyRaz - so violence in secondary schools went on until at least the late 90s?

I saw the strap being used a couple of times, must have been fucking sore cos it made even the tough boys cry (though we were only 9 or 10 at the time). I was too much of a goodie goodie to ever even be threatened with it