US Election 2020 (3 Viewers)

[Kermit McDermott]

is Ariel Pink good at music? Since when?

I think he write's cool songs.
I doubt he's much use in a riot though.

 

[snakybus]

has there been any serious study into why down on their luck people, who don't like the
status quo, have such affection for Trump ?
there is this chauvinistic devotion to someone is counter to their own interests.
how does someone have more empathy for Trump than other working people ?
they must be extremely desperate to latch on to anyone who will affirm their own deluded views.

Because they're a bunch of thicks.

Or: I think it's what he represents to a class of people with a teenage mindset who feel most comfortable being "the permanently disenfranchised". He's very much not the political class, whom they, perhaps accurately, see as not dissimilar to (or even the very same as) the business class, who in real life are their bosses after all. They see them as a templatised, suit-wearing, buzzword-using, mealy-mouthed, untrustworthy, backstabbing, self-serving bunch of squares, but ultimately THE MAN. What you must aspire to in order to be "normal" - and this is has been reflected and blown up by the polarising and ultimately emotional restricting effect of social media too. I didn't notice a lot of suits and shaved faces in the rabble. Lots of beards and colourful clothing. All Trump has had to do is diverge slightly from the template. See when he used the word "bullshit"? They went nuts. Like your teacher swearing in class.

 

[Kermit McDermott]

Has there been any serious study into why down on their luck people, who don't like the
status quo, have such affection for Trump ?
there is this chauvinistic devotion to someone is counter to their own interests.
how does someone have more empathy for Trump than other working people ?
they must be extremely desperate to latch on to anyone who will affirm their own deluded views.

Don't tell me the Quo are trump supporters as well.
I'm already pissed off about Ariel Pink & Jon Maus

 

[pete]

This isn't to defend the eejits yesterday or anything, but, as egg was saying, does anyone actually, truly think a small mob of unorganized internet-brained fools running riot for 2 hours is going to actually commit a coup large enough to take on the US military and police force??

A coup doesn't need to take on the military and the police - it needs enough of them to switch allegiance. The (relatively) muted reaction of the cops all through yesterday's malarkey would suggest that's not a huge leap.

 

[Lili Marlene]

A coup doesn't need to take on the military and the police - it needs enough of them to switch allegiance. The (relatively) muted reaction of the cops all through yesterday's malarkey would suggest that's not a huge leap.

That's true. Interestingly, Trump is the one Republican president that isn't popular with the Army. The cops love him though don't they?

 

[Lili Marlene]

Imagining a coup in the USA where all the cops start rounding each other up because cops are the deep-state and they are against the deep state.


spiderman pointing at spiderman all over the place

 

[JohnnyRaz]

I think he write's cool songs.
I doubt he's much use in a riot though.

himself and ted nugent below could have a jam off

 

[rettucs]

like when the hoover sucks up the hoover

 

[Lili Marlene]

A decent point imho

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i do love the guy with the lectern thingy though

 

[flashback]

has there been any serious study into why down on their luck people, who don't like the
status quo, have such affection for Trump ?
there is this chauvinistic devotion to someone is counter to their own interests.
how does someone have more empathy for Trump than other working people ?
they must be extremely desperate to latch on to anyone who will affirm their own deluded views.

I'd say it comes from a few factors, and it's not one size fits all.

One reason might be to do with the Dems being considered the party of the establishment, of the elites. Whereas the GOP are the party opposing this. This idea is pressed relentlessly in various media outlets (and while the Dems are the party of the elite establishment, so are the Reps and possibly even more so - but this is not talked about much).

The idea becomes if you want to kick back against the elite establishment, it's logical to fight against the Dems. How do you fight against the Dems? Vote for the other guys.

Then The Fat Man comes along, legitimately does not give a fuck, says anything and everything that occurs to him. He knows and understands how to inflame this narrative, and he does that, becoming this self styled man of the people speaking truth to power.

Essentially the reason the Reps were able to become so extreme and powerful is by the Dems failing miserably to address inequality, allowing the Reps come in afterwards to pick up the pieces. I think a lot of them know that Trump is kinda nasty, but they will take his rough edges to kick back against power.

 

[flashback]

Also, they are lied to relentlessly by the likes of Fox News.

Also, the police here are a lawless gang of thugs. So, they really are being oppressed. There's every right to feel the way they do.

 

[flashback]

I guess one question might be more along the lines of why don't the fucked over underclass in eg DC / Baltimore / Bx etc also hop onto this narrative?

And the answer to that is the fucked over underclass in those places are primarily black, and the GOP are unashamed racists.

But there's other markets to get tapped; Latin communities, who are in the same situation as poor whites, could flip either way. The GOP can seemingly be racist and appealing to Latinos. I think this is to do with a lot of Latin people actively distancing themselves from the native / mestizo people, who are safe to hate, and align themselves with the other racists, who appear to hold power. You see this in Cubans pretty frequently for some reason.

 

[Lili Marlene]

umm, is this video real? I know that if the protestors were black they would have just have shot them all but it also doesn't look like they just let everyone through

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[flashback]

umm, is this video real? I know that if the protestors were black they would have just have shot them all but it also doesn't look like they just let everyone through

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Yeah. They put up some resistance at some points. But they also let them through, and then mainly coddled them once they got inside.

If they had wanted to stop them gaining entry, they could have. Like you said, if that was a gang of black men, they'd have shot them. No question.

 

[egg_]

But they also let them through, and then mainly coddled them once they got inside.

If they had wanted to stop them gaining entry, they could have. Like you said, if that was a gang of black men, they'd have shot them.

Erm ... I'm gonna say that the last sentence here is a little weird, cos it seems to imply that the cops should have shot these lads. Steady on there dude.

 

[flashback]

Put it this way: the cops were told to stand guard, they were given orders. Some of those cops put in some effort to carry out those orders, and pushed back against the Republican mob. Some of them did not.

To me there's zero chance that some of the cops were not at the very least allowing the Republican mob inside. Whether and to what degree they actively conspired is another question. There's footage of them pulling barriers back, they posed for selfies inside the Capitol FFS.

 

[flashback]

Erm ... I'm gonna say that the last sentence here is a little weird, cos it seems to imply that the cops should have shot these lads. Steady on there dude.

I don't think I was. There's a gap between shooting someone, and preventing them from breaking in.

There's two statements:

the republicans were not treated as they would have been had they been black.

the police force could have prevented them from entering if they had chosen to. One thing US cops can do very well is overwhelming force. Round up a gang of lads outside a military installation, and then storm it. I guarantee they won't get inside.

 

[nuke terrorist]

I'd say it comes from a few factors, and it's not one size fits all.

One reason might be to do with the Dems being considered the party of the establishment, of the elites. Whereas the GOP are the party opposing this. This idea is pressed relentlessly in various media outlets (and while the Dems are the party of the elite establishment, so are the Reps and possibly even more so - but this is not talked about much).

The idea becomes if you want to kick back against the elite establishment, it's logical to fight against the Dems. How do you fight against the Dems? Vote for the other guys.

Then The Fat Man comes along, legitimately does not give a fuck, says anything and everything that occurs to him. He knows and understands how to inflame this narrative, and he does that, becoming this self styled man of the people speaking truth to power.

Essentially the reason the Reps were able to become so extreme and powerful is by the Dems failing miserably to address inequality, allowing the Reps come in afterwards to pick up the pieces. I think a lot of them know that Trump is kinda nasty, but they will take his rough edges to kick back against power.

this is a bit 1984 - only tell people bullshit and they lose the will to reason eventually.

there is nothing redeeming about Donald Trump yet 70 million people voted for him
but of course he is part of the establishment - wears a suit, from wealthy NYC family,
tax dodger, billionaire, chronic liar, psychopath, was friends with the Clinton's,
nothing man of people about him beyond the trash talking.

I understand how folks are disgusted with politicians pandering to middle class voters.
but Republicans surely only appeal to social conservatives.

Trump realized at some point decades ago that he could say outrageous things and hit a
nerve with people. he was a popular chat show guest in the 80's and 90's and the audiences,
loved his JR Ewing demeanour.
Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh etc. do this for a living

all this is an anathema to me and I'm an unemployed bogger who didn't finish skool.

so my main point is:
ultimately why would you support a heart to darkness just to fuck shit up ?
an irrational, risk taking mindset seems almost inherent in Trump supporters and
psychologically something dangerous is easily triggered in them.

Biden is awful too but...
the one positive is Bernie appealed to many of the Trump support more than Hilary and
should have won four years ago if the democrats had chosen him.

I watched Fox News a lot 4 or 5 years ago. they wanted Rubio or Cruz and were stunned
how popular Trump was.
a few weeks before the election they wrote him off after the video of him boasting
about groping women came to light. Bill O'Reilly (!) in particular thought Trump
had no chance and was critical of him.

 

[magicbastarder]

umm, is this video real? I know that if the protestors were black they would have just have shot them all but it also doesn't look like they just let everyone through

that's a tiny amount of police though for the task in hand, looks like they were a single layer deep and easy to breach.

 

[flashback]

so my main point is:
ultimately why people would you support a heart to darkness just to fuck shit up ?
an irrational, risk taking mindset seems almost inherent in Trump supporters and
psychologically something dangerous is easily triggered in them.

I guess the way I'd think about would be: what have I got to lose?

So, when I was little in the 80s we had to cross the border a fair amount, and often it was at weird hours, and often we'd get lost. It was scary crossing those checkpoints, and the lads were shining lights into the car and pointing guns at my dad.

Sitting in the back seat I was watching them, and I had decided that if they shot my dad, I was going to take revenge. And it didn't matter what, or how; I was going to take revenge. If they had taken away my father, I would have gladly ruined my life to hurt "them".

And I was pretty privileged.

If you take away everything you have to lose, then you've got nothing left to lose, so you might do stupid shit. Their logic could be this situation is fucked. It can't (in their opinion) get all that much more fucked, so whatever happens is likely going to be an improvement. Anything at all is better than what I have.


I go back to the North, if you look at the people who were actively involved, they were mainly from the poorer classes. Middle class prods didn't end up in the UVF. The extreme positions come from people who have little to lose.