I'd agree with you, not a Nazi - but you could see a path in the 1920s where had he lived he could have become a dictator, such as was fashionable at the time. (would collins have handed power over to FF in 1932 for example?)
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I'd agree with you, not a Nazi - but you could see a path in the 1920s where had he lived he could have become a dictator, such as was fashionable at the time. (would collins have handed power over to FF in 1932 for example?)
I don't know - One character that was interesting to me in the history podcasts was hannibal - the elephant guy not the A-team guy (though similar). What's interesting about hannibal is beyond the elephants that he managed to maintain a military campaign effectively sorrounded by enemies with a depleting army that he had to constantly recruit for something like 15 years after - his countrymen didn't want him home because he was too infuential. with almost no evidence I suspect Collins would be long term happier on campaigns then he would be in office and woulda been a smaller version of this - maybe like that lad Finbar Cafferkey who died in Ukraine last year.
"I heard recently actually (I orbitally knew Finbar off an on over the years) two things. #1 Finbars knickname in the feild was the mountain such was his contributions to morale. He largely was guy who could survive in a conflict but was usually there to run humanitarian channels. #2 Apparently the russian interventions in Syria really fucked with what they had set up out there and he was so annoyed about it long term he decided to go to Ukraine to fuck with the Russians a bit more."
maybe - I don't think Collins was every entirely away from the political side of it though. I've found it's an interesting counterfactual to troll dyed in the wool blueshirts with (when 'the greatest leader Ireland never had' conversation is going on)
final counterfactual of the morning..
no 1916 rising (or a 1916 rising where the ICA was not involved)
the alternative future for militant labor/socialism in Ireland if Connolly hadn't been killed, and the ICA not co-opted in the nationalist struggle
Irish countrywomen's Association?
Irish Citizens Army.
The Irish Countrywomens Association never disbanded their armed wing AFAIK..
Maybe they should have..
nope, saw them in action in Thurles the other year. FIERCE
'come out ye pots and pans'???
Did they win their place in the home during the revolution or something.
I'll self cancel myself here.
I'll self cancel myself here.
yes - they were lucky they had such champions as Dev and McQuaid to make sure their place was enshrined the constitution
Oh I'm certainly not aguing that independence/partition was a bad idea (well, partition maybe) and while staying British was part of it history demonstrates that a big part of it was also maintaining the position of protestant power in what became Northern Ireland.
But them being our own fuckups to make doesn't mean the fears that they would happen were unfounded because we did make them.
I do think there is also an element of telling on yourself there too. There was possibly an element of fearing that a Catholic majority state might do to a Protestant minority what the Protestant Majority state did end up doing to Catholics.
The real life example would be the protestant story in the south post partition I supposer, which exactly that happened.
This is probably a part of the history of the 26 that we don't reflect on enough.
It's understandable as compared to Roman Catholics in the North people from my background got off far far lighter down here but if someone tried to argue that there weren't structural issues faced by non Catholic populations here they'd be kidding themselves it's just that things like the Mayo librarian or Fethard on Sea (and the Dail's reaction to it) were more curious phenomena compared to the North.
Pernicious rather than malignant I suppose.
My parents in their youths' would have experienced real life people saying shit to them because they were prods sectarianism, rocks thrown.
Sammy Wilson, obviously an idiot, has said in the past that a sign of anti-Protestantism in the ROI is the lack of us in the gardai. I've always thought of that as more of a class thing and where the cops come from.
All that being said, since 22 there's no doubt who had it easier in terms of being just that between southern protestants and northern catholics.
I wasn't liking rocks being thrown at your folks for the record.
Like there prods at my catholic national school and nobody gave a fuck. I'm from a town that actually is a microcosmic thing were it was about 35/65 at times. prods/taigs and at heart, people didn't really give a fuck. Like there were active IRA families in town and they weren't going about the houses in town making threats, they were doing shit in the north where the troubles were on. Like I'm not saying republicans are fucking great, but a republic most certainly knows what those three colours on the flag are for.
I think it probably varied place to place, time to time as well.
A dick of a parish priest for example could stir shit up (happened in my locality in the 60s/70s I think), and there was the whole 'ne temere' thing, which made life difficult for mixed marriages.
But social/religious discrimination, rather the legal or systematic on the whole.
Without getting into a discussion on social location & relative privilege, to some extent the fact that a greater proportion (but by no means all) of southern protestants would have been better off, than the majority of northern catholics probably offered some advantages, both individually and as a group.
Yeah - in reality historically there have been people like Wolfe Tone and Isaac Butt who've supported equal rights in the mechanisms they lived in while not even being taigs which if you want to really look at the journey of civil rights in the south (debatable if they've really come about in the north at present) you have to factor them in. But a southern prod is always able to pull those names out of the bag as opposed to some of the minority dinosaurs* in stormont.
*i know they don't believe in dinosaurs
one of the interesting things I've read about 1798 (in one or two places), was that at the time the Catholic Church (hierarchy) was not in favor of the rebellion. This was because of the multi confessional nature of the United Irishmen, but also because they were focusing on the long game of catholic emancipation in britain and ireland as a whole, and along with that the establishment of catholic seminaries etc. in ireland (the first of which opened in 1795).
The catholic church in ireland came more over to the side of nationalism over the 19th C., in part (or so this theory goes) that from the establishment of maynooth in the late 1800s, priests were now educated in ireland, as opposed to france/rome where they would have a less localised view of what was 'good' for the catholic church in the long run.
Not a scholar of this by any means, but its an interesting idea to chew over ;-)
Following on from The Wolfe Tones discussion, a few of the acts mentioned in the thread are still going strong (the TLT has a capacity of 900)
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Coldplay will also continue to sell out shows even when none of their singles chart.And I'm certain they will not get any better in any way
Imagine if coldplay recorded an album of rebel songs.
that would be gas.
and probably awful
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