DuncheeKnifed said:i doubt it's objectivity. any more info on that case oh shit?
Here you go:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/correspondent/803151.stm
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DuncheeKnifed said:i doubt it's objectivity. any more info on that case oh shit?
So what social pressures exactly force the poor little criminals to dance on someones head?oh shit said:it's ironic that many of the same social attitudes and pressures that demand punishment over rehabilitation are often the very same pressures that drive people to crimes of 'madness' or economic crime in the first place.
What do you mean by promoting human rights norms?oh shit said:there just doesn't seem to be a climate for a proper discussion of reforming the penal system (which is pretty much fucked in ireland and the UK), i think that promoting a better understanding of what human rights norms actually are might be a good place to start; but that's not going to come from the state.
spiritualtramp said:So what social pressures exactly force the poor little criminals to dance on someones head?
What do you mean by promoting human rights norms?
Most violent criminals attitudes are down to their parents influence. Did you see about the family of David Morley getting abuse from the family of those convicted happy slappers? I'm pretty sure there is a link there... No matter how much money is pumped into penal reform (and I agree there should be a lot more) at the end of the day you can't actually force people to bring their kids up properly with respect for other people.
To do so would be state interference and you'd be the first person screaming about that.
oh shit said:in terms of prisons, or generally? in general, discourse on rights doesn't seem to distinguish between actual written human rights which are intended to limit the powers of statutory bodies over individuals, and other concepts of 'rights' which are wheeled out to justify any political position that suits.
therefore if the actual human rights which are laid down in the ECHR and (theoretically) a part of Irish and UK law were more widely diseminated there may be a different outlook on debates around things like penality.
oh shit said:seriously, how do you persist with the notion that 'a family' or individuals exist in some sort of isolated bubble, with no outside social or economic influence? it's absurd.
oh shit said:you've got it backwards. what you're describing is basically 'underclass' theory a la charles murray. the idea that there is a horde of lazy, irresponsible poor people happy to stay poor and be single mums and sponge off the state and that this breeds crime - it's bullshit. you're looking at symptoms and calling them causes.
oh shit said:and fyi, there is 'state interference' exactly of the type you describe in the UK. it's in the form of ASBOs, ABCs, and Parenting Orders, and it's all introduced under the rhetoric of 'respect'.
oh shit said:a parent can now be jailed for refusing to take part in a parenting programme if their child's school demands it, for example.
oh shit said:don't worry cos the irish justice minister is a big fan, you'll probably get a lot of it in too.
then even you yourself can apply to have the yobs and wasters and general riff raff carted off to mountjoy without them ever actually breaking the law. sweet huh.
spiritualtramp said:Alright, you win
tartaruga said:Phew.
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