Thinking of killing this kid on my street. (1 Viewer)

[piratio]

What's the maximum sentence available for Manslaughter in the country? 12 years. hmmmm

 

[spiritualtramp]

I recall people whining when that poor kids body was left out in the open the night he was found. The police left it there to preserve all the forensic evidence.

If the body was treated properly with regards to forensics where the fuck is this semen evidence then? I don't believe this was a cover up.

 

[Buzzo]

I have no idea what to make of this case. I really don't. However I don't really support conventional custodial sentences as a means to deal with crime.

Anyone see that article in the time on those four kids from London joyfully jumping on skulls and videoing it on their mobile? Happy Slapping, the call it. Made me buy the paper. Murder sells.

 

[oh shit]

What's the maximum sentence available for Manslaughter in the country? 12 years. hmmmm

what do you mean by that?

C'mon Bernard, Sentencing is supposed to reflect the severity of the crime in an effort to uphold the law and act as a deterent. I'm from that area at home, I know some of the houlihans [not the family involved] & o'donohues and generally, I feel sorry for the chap, but imho, his sentence needed to be more severe [for the above reasons...]

no need for a "cmon", like i said i'm only asking for opinions. earlier today i bought a big textbook on penology as i am about to start four months of studying it.

so, his sentence should be more severe for all the reasons of punishment, deterrence, protecting society from him, and his own rehabilitation? or because you know the families?

i would think the only thing that can be certainly increased by a longer spell in prison is the degree of punishment, ie retribution for the crime. but this is at odds with the aim of rehabilitation, which should try to reintegrate the offender back into normal society at some future point.

these aims are in opposition and must be balanced. i dont see how they can all simultaneously justify a more severe penalty.

it's interesting that the 'rights' of the victim's family don't figure in any classical theories of punishment. and where would they figure? what exactly is it that the victim's family have a right to, and how is that satisfied by imprisonment?

it's obviously going to be painful for the family to think that this guy is out in four years and their son is gone forever. would that be much easier if the period was longer? again, i'm just wondering.

perhaps some sort of restorative element would better help families to come to terms, not only with their loss, but with the offender too. they don't have to become friends or anything, but it seems like that might be more effective than simply demanding greater punishment - as though their child's life could be measured or balanced by years in prison.
it's like elvis costello has been singing in my head all day, what's so funny about peace love and understanding?

 

[nlgbbbblth]

Hard to call this one.

Although it's plain to see that the kid would still be alive if he didn't start throwing stones at the older guy's van.

I agree with what Anthony said. The guy should have admitted it straight away without putting everyone else through the ordeal that followed.

 

[pad]

Hard to call this one.

Although it's plain to see that the kid would still be alive if he didn't start throwing stones at the older guy's van.

I agree with what Anthony said. The guy should have admitted it straight away without putting everyone else through the ordeal that followed.

I believe that they didn't actually find any evidence of stones having been thrown at the car. But again that doesn't mean to say that it didn't happen. the kid was probably throwing tiny pebbles that didn't harm the car, but yeah it is a tough one to call. this new evidence seems pretty important. dya reckon we'll ever find out why it wasn't introduced or more about it?

 

[spiritualtramp]

I have no idea what to make of this case. I really don't. However I don't really support conventional custodial sentences as a means to deal with crime..

I agree with you to some extent regarding custodial sentancing, a lot of the crime in question like muggings and robbery is due to drugs which can be dealt with in different ways. I have a totally different view in regards to violent crime though. Take the case you mention below. You want people like that being left to stroll around kicking your mates heads in? I don't.

Anyone see that article in the time on those four kids from London joyfully jumping on skulls and videoing it on their mobile? Happy Slapping, the call it. Made me buy the paper. Murder sells.

I have zero sympathy for people like this getting locked up. To plan to stamp on peoples heads for fun is just totally sick.

 

[CITY BABY]

I don't care if you are being funny mate. Have some respect.

its okay he was A.D.D

 

[CITY BABY]

on a serious note.
the DPPs original case was for manslaughter, which was later upgraded to murder , does this mean additional evidence was found or did they think " sure we'll give murder a lash, and sure if it doesnt work out he'll still be done for manslaughter"
if what the kids mother was saying is true why was it suppressed in the case??? surely this is at the discretion of the DPP? and as the judge said when passing sentance, he couldnt actually sentace for what happened after the killing took place as obstruction of justice or whatever ya call it, wasnt part of the case before him ,which was also at the DPPs discretion!

I dunno scoobes

 

[Buzzo]

I have a totally different view in regards to violent crime though. Take the case you mention below. You want people like that being left to stroll around kicking your mates heads in? I don't.

I have zero sympathy for people like this getting locked up. To plan to stamp on peoples heads for fun is just totally sick.

It's really really baffling to me what it is that enables a gang of people to do shit like that. clockwork orange was alluded to in the article I read, which seems appropriate.

I still don't know what a sentence in prison will achieve or how it will benefit society. It's ldestructive, when you throw psychiatric/sociopathic cases in prison without dealing with underlying issues. current conditions in priosn can only serve to exacerbate whatever shit these kids are dealing with.

I know there's no alternative available, but there should be.

 

[glen]

I don't really support conventional custodial sentences as a means to deal with crime.

I'm with aoifed on this.

 

[spiritualtramp]

It's really really baffling to me what it is that enables a gang of people to do shit like that. clockwork orange was alluded to in the article I read, which seems appropriate.

I still don't know what a sentence in prison will achieve or how it will benefit society. It's ldestructive, when you throw psychiatric/sociopathic cases in prison without dealing with underlying issues. current conditions in priosn can only serve to exacerbate whatever shit these kids are dealing with.

I know there's no alternative available, but there should be.

Sure, prison involves chucking these people in altogether and thats obviously not good for them but at the end of the day aside from the rights of the prisoner the general public also have a right to be protected from people that jump up and down on someones head.

I posted a link to an article from the Observer somewhere on another one of these type threads, dunno if you saw that. It was about a prison in Britain that was running a very successful scheme for the rehabilitation of total scary type psychopaths. Anyway, I'd be well in favour of that type of thing.

If someone is deemed so bad that they have to be kept away from society it is the responsibility of the state to try their bloody hardest to teach the person not to act in a violent manner when they are released. That is the closest to an alternative I can think of.

 

[billygannon]

Sure, prison involves chucking these people in altogether and thats obviously not good for them but at the end of the day aside from the rights of the prisoner the general public also have a right to be protected from people that jump up and down on someones head.

I think that instead of being put in prison, the perpetrators of crimes such as these should be spayed. That'd cool their ardour.

 

[oh shit]

If someone is deemed so bad that they have to be kept away from society it is the responsibility of the state to try their bloody hardest to teach the person not to act in a violent manner when they are released. That is the closest to an alternative I can think of.

exactly, but as this thread has already shown, what actually works in offender rehabilitation tends to be extremely unpopular in political terms, which is a reflection of our punitive society in general.

it's ironic that many of the same social attitudes and pressures that demand punishment over rehabilitation are often the very same pressures that drive people to crimes of 'madness' or economic crime in the first place.

there just doesn't seem to be a climate for a proper discussion of reforming the penal system (which is pretty much fucked in ireland and the UK), i think that promoting a better understanding of what human rights norms actually are might be a good place to start; but that's not going to come from the state.

 

[piratio]

no need for a "cmon"...

Sorry yo, didn't mean to be patronising there... Just feel very strongly about this kinda shit. I have a kid myself and the thought of anything like this happening to my little girl just makes me sick to my skin. I can completely understand Mark & Majella's need for satisfaction, to see that guy fittingly punished. Maybe I am letting personal issues muddy my opinions here but at the same time, shouldn't humanity have some place in these kind of situations.

I agree, to some degree, that prisoners need to be rehabilitated before release, but rehab should not automatically equate with a short prison term, and certainly not at the expense of the punitive element of the sentencing; Prisoners should feel suitably punished, come the date of their release, to discourage them from commiting crimes in the future. Infact, I think prison terms, where suitable, should be so severe as to deter a civilain from ever feeling like they might get away with commiting a particular crime. This might help reduce the amount of people actually going to prison in the first place perhaps?

I'd have more to say but I'm just really pissed off today...

Hope you get what I'm on about here...

:heart:

 

[oh shit]

yeah i do know what you're sayin and i understand it but it doesn't change the fact that the prison system of punishment is ineffective at rehabilitation.

deterrence, well that obviously doesn't work either; for example since the united states introduced mandatory minimum sentences the rates of incarceration and prison over-crowding skyrocketed.

i dont think that applies here, as it seems unlikely that this guy came from an environment of petty crime and poverty, this was a particularly disturbing crime, as it always is where children are murdered, which makes it a bit more emotionally charged as a subject for debate. and in this case it seems more natural to want him to be punished and shamed rather than put out into day care or given a job training course or whatever.

but i think the principles of incarceration must be consistent across the board.

interesting aside on the social aspect..
a criminologist at queens was researching the reaction to the jamie bulger killing, when two ten year old boys were tried and sentenced in an adult criminal court. a similar case happened in norway, a young girl was beaten to death by two male classmates. within a few months the boys were back in school and receiving full social care support, as were their families and the victim's family.
when the criminologist asked the girl's mother how she felt about the boys being free and arguably in a better off position than when they killed the girl, she didn't have a problem. when he told her that in england they'd have been named and shamed in the media, held in custody for over a year, then taken out of society and placed in a young offender's centre, she was horrified.
a lot of people here find their treatment and her reaction equally disturbing.. it's totally subjective.

sorry for bangin on about this..!

 

[piratio]

Wow! I certainly couldn't fathom that kind of objectivity...

B

 

[nofunchee]

Wow! I certainly couldn't fathom that kind of objectivity...

B

i doubt it's objectivity. any more info on that case oh shit?

 

[glen]

And when's the film out?

 

[nofunchee]

And when's the film out?

i think it got an exclusive straight to video release.