The Russian invasion of Ukraine (9 Viewers)

[Cormcolash]

please feel free to elaborate on this.

I just think if Putin had wanted to go into the Baltics, a few NATO bases there wouldn't really put him off. I don't really think there's much that he wants in those countries, is all.

 

[rettucs]

I just think if Putin had wanted to go into the Baltics, a few NATO bases there wouldn't really put him off. I don't really think there's much that he wants in those countries, is all.

maybe. Though I'd say he's very interested in the coastline of both Latvia and Estonia. Russia is cut off from Kaliningrad by Lithuania, so I'd say he'd have sights set there too. Then you have the entry to the Baltic sea between Saremaeaa and Kolka, as well as having more control over the Gulf of Finland.

The Baltics are still littered with remnants of the Soviet era. For example, about 20km from where I currently am, there's an underground bunker which was built as a backup command centre in the event of a nuclear war. Its under an old-folks home and they were going to destroy it in the 1990s, before Latvian independence, but thankfully it survived intact. The point being, that place, seemingly in the middle of nowhere, was chosen as the location for controlling the war, should Moscow fall, so they obviously saw value in the location.

And most people here would disagree with you. It's widely believed that NATO membership is why Russia haven't tried it on.

 

[magicbastarder]

wasn't russia's interest in crimea largely driven by sevastopol - it's the only deep water port in russia's control which is ice free all year round, IIRC.
(what little i know of the geopolitics in this area was gleaned and is badly remembered from having read this book: Prisoners of Geography )

 

[hydromancer]

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[Unicron]

My current take, the rest of the world isn't going to feel that Ukraine is "important" enough to go to actual war with Russia over, so there won't be direct military intervention on it.

They'll just let whatever happens in Ukraine play out in the immediate future and hope that the sanctions will start to bite quickly.

This is also the most comforting take for the impact on my personal day to day existence so maybe I'm just lying to myself so that I feel less worried.

 

[Unicron]

Also, on the subject of Nazis,/denazification, reports this morning that Putin's nazi mates are in Kyiv already on the hunt to find and assassinate Ukraine's Jewish president.

 

[taubstumm]

I suspect this is a pure ukrainian morale-booster/propaganda type of effort, not a real large-scale thing... but I do appreciate the mordant wit: replacing road signs so that all roads lead to the hague

 

[ann post]

I kinda think the Nazi discussion is stupid. People who go extreme aren't actually methodically political actors and more often people so self conscious they need a framework to self assure.

I'd be more into finding out how many people on average are living in a void of identity.

The COVID conspiracy heads literally took one weekend to pivot to having completely forgotten they were COVID conspiracy people and switched to global Ukraine/Russia conspiracy heads. It took trump just a few years to turn aimless Nazis types into attack the capital with guns types. People are these things because it's safe and simple to be them. If it becomes safer and simpler to be something else, they'll do it.

But I'll never really be convinced they are independent political actors. The ideal they follow is to clear cut for that. They aren't Nazis any more than they are anything else simple and comforting

 

[Unicron]

The COVID conspiracy heads literally took one weekend to pivot to having completely forgotten they were COVID conspiracy people and switched to global Ukraine/Russia conspiracy heads.

Speaking of ...

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[rettucs]

Throw that fucker in the sea.

When War Struck, Ukraine Turned to Telegram

As Russian troops surround Kyiv, millions of Ukrainians have relied on the messaging platform for government information.

www.wired.com

I hope this isn't paywalled (I subscribe). I've heard a lot of mentions of Telegram since this shit kicked off and had no idea what it was. That gives some background.

 

[Unicron]

Throw that fucker in the sea.

When War Struck, Ukraine Turned to Telegram

As Russian troops surround Kyiv, millions of Ukrainians have relied on the messaging platform for government information.

www.wired.com

I hope this isn't paywalled (I subscribe). I've heard a lot of mentions of Telegram since this shit kicked off and had no idea what it was. That gives some background.

free to read

 

[pete]

Telegram isn’t end to end encrypted by default.

This is nuts.

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[taubstumm]

didn’t take long for us all to adapt to a new reality where videos of grumpy soldiers or burning russian military hardware are the hot new genre of zippy viral content, one more flavour added to the endless scroll

 

[Unicron]

didn’t take long for us all to adapt to a new reality where videos of grumpy soldiers or burning russian military hardware are the hot new genre of zippy viral content, one more flavour added to the endless scroll

It'd make you wish for more footage of annoying american teenagers torturing staff at fast food restaurants by giving them their order in group song.

 

[Cormcolash]

wasn't russia's interest in crimea largely driven by sevastopol - it's the only deep water port in russia's control which is ice free all year round, IIRC.
(what little i know of the geopolitics in this area was gleaned and is badly remembered from having read this book: Prisoners of Geography )

Russia were NEVER gonna give up Sevastopol. Was never ever gonna happen. Far too big a naval base, home to the Black Sea fleet i.e close enough to be influential in anything happening in North Africa/Middle East (which is exactly what happened).
The Crimea thing is a funny one actually, because Crimea voted to join Russia. Ukraine refuse to recognise that vote, and insist Crimea is theirs – but Crimea was only actually given to Ukraine during the Soviet era, by Khrushchev I think.
The naval aspect of Crimea has been it's basic 'economy' for decades, so it's no surprise they would vote to join Russia. Lots of people said the vote was dodgy, and maybe the referendum was, but it's really pretty certain that if there was a completely 'fair' and uninfluenced vote in Crimea, they'd easily vote to join Russia anyway.

 

[Cormcolash]

It'd make you wish for more footage of annoying american teenagers torturing staff at fast food restaurants by giving them their order in group song.

The Real Johnny is your man for finding that stuff

 

[taubstumm]

It'd make you wish for more footage of annoying american teenagers torturing staff at fast food restaurants by giving them their order in group song.

just wait til we get martial law declared in russia next week, and the videos of panicked muscovites trying to get on planes will begin

 

[seanc]

Radio is suggesting tomorrow for martial law...

 

[egg_]

Wow. I wonder was martial law in Russia the whole point of this all along

 

[Unicron]

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