The Looming War Over Taiwan (1 Viewer)

China still massively harassing a peaceful, democratic country

 
He hasn't a hope. And it might just help the current party in power having so many soft-on-China candidates..

His longer game might be to unite the pro-China opposition.
This is all upside down now

The main opposition (pro-China) parties have united and the likelihood of a more pro-China Taiwan is growing
The same guys (and it's all guys) that steamrolled democracy in Hong Kong, is ethnically cleansing the Uyghurs, and disappears anyone for a sniff of dissent, may soon hold sway over a country that defied them.
God help anyone who ever voiced an opinion on that island.
 
steamrolled democracy in Hong Kong

just to pick on this one point, among all the others — hong kong was never a democracy during the time of british colonial control. the very first election ever held in hong kong was in 1995, *after* the british had already agreed to hand over to the chinese. so they had 150 years of colonialism, and then two years of window-dressing electoralism, and then a handover.

the claim of hong kong as some sort of historical beacon of democracy is a fantasy, and a creation of western media. this is not to deny the very real protests of recent years, but — if you’re interested in actually understanding them, rather than simply instrumentalising them — it makes much more sense to view them as the actions of a privileged city relative to *other* chinese cities, which protested in order to try to maintain aspects of its privileged post-colonial position (which itself is effectively a historical contingency, due to having a deep harbour).
 
just to pick on this one point, among all the others — hong kong was never a democracy during the time of british colonial control. the very first election ever held in hong kong was in 1995, *after* the british had already agreed to hand over to the chinese. so they had 150 years of colonialism, and then three years of window-dressing electoralism, and then a handover.

the claim of hong kong as some sort of historical beacon of democracy is a fantasy, and a creation of western media. this is not to deny the very real protests of recent years, but — if you’re interested in actually understanding them, rather than simply instrumentalising them — it makes much more sense to view them as the actions of a privileged city relative to *other* chinese cities, which protested in order to try to maintain aspects of its privileged post-colonial position (which itself is effectively a historical contingency, due to having a deep harbour).
Just showing what the dictatorship in Beijing will do to anyone that expresses an opinion they don't like
And it's never pleasant
 
Just showing what the dictatorship in Beijing will do to anyone that expresses an opinion they don't like
And it's never pleasant

there are plenty of potential criticisms to make about china, but it is a bit unpersuasive to incessantly characterise the chinese government as a “dictatorship” — when intended as a term of denigration. according to harvard university (not exactly a pro-china place), real satisfaction with the government in china is somewhere around 95% of citizens:

 
or, to put it another way, there are elections, and there is democracy, and the two things do not always correlate or overlap neatly
 
It's almost as if a population that only has access to a state-controlled narrative and propaganda will tend to align with that narrative. They don't even know Tiananmen Sq happened.
Ignorance is strength and all that.

I wonder what the satisfaction percentage is with the Uyghurs?
Did anyone ask Rahile Dawut?
Was Peng Shuai polled on how wonderful the government is?
Trick question, no one's allowed speak to them.

If you think the Chinese govt is wonderful, grand for you.
It's probably a great place to live if you play ball.
A literal horrorshow if you do what we are doing right now.
 
It's almost as if a population that only has access to a state-controlled narrative and propaganda will tend to align with that narrative. They don't even know Tiananmen Sq happened.
Ignorance is strength and all that.

I wonder what the satisfaction percentage is with the Uyghurs?
Did anyone ask Rahile Dawut?
Was Peng Shuai polled on how wonderful the government is?
Trick question, no one's allowed speak to them.

If you think the Chinese govt is wonderful, grand for you.
It's probably a great place to live if you play ball.
A literal horrorshow if you do what we are doing right now.

dude you’re not making any sense... chinese people are wordly, literate, cosmopolitan people. this idea that they live in some kind of orwellian information vacuum is just nonsense. yes there are censors, yes there is interference. we know that, they know that. it’s not perfect. but they can also look at the whole fucking internet. just by way of example: I played a gig during lockdown times which was livestreamed to people in shanghai over zoom. they were hipsters with hilarious haircuts. they talked freely about whatever they wanted — including bitching about their own government. you’re just telling yourself a story here that is simply not backed up by reality.
 
also, I’m not trying to be confrontational here, sorry if I give that impression. but we get fed so much anti-china stuff that it seems sometimes like as if it acts as a kind of license to abandon reality. like maybe spend five minutes digging up some other perspectives on things some time. it’s really rewarding! it doesn’t turn you into a stalinist! I promise!
 
dude you’re not making any sense... chinese people are wordly, literate, cosmopolitan people. this idea that they live in some kind of orwellian information vacuum is just nonsense. yes there are censors, yes there is interference. we know that, they know that. it’s not perfect. but they can also look at the whole fucking internet. just by way of example: I played a gig during lockdown times which was livestreamed to people in shanghai over zoom. they were hipsters with hilarious haircuts. they talked freely about whatever they wanted — including bitching about their own government. you’re just telling yourself a story here that is simply not backed up by reality.
Search for Tiananmen Sq 1989 in China and see what results you get. Post about it and there's a knock on your door.

I know just how worldly the Chinese are. My opinion is based on Chinese people I know in my personal life. They love their country but they got out. Like I'm not inventing anything.
The Uyghurs are a reality. Rahile Dawut and Peng Shuai are a reality.
A reality that any Taiwanese with an opinion should be wary of.
 
also, I’m not trying to be confrontational here, sorry if I give that impression. but we get fed so much anti-china stuff that it seems sometimes like as if it acts as a kind of license to abandon reality. like maybe spend five minutes digging up some other perspectives on things some time. it’s really rewarding! it doesn’t turn you into a stalinist! I promise!
Nah, I get it. And I don't mean to be confrontational either.

It's just this stuff with the Uyghurs, a million people forced into camps. It's horrific. And it's not an outlier; it's directly in accordance with Xi's vision for China.
I read plenty on this subject. I honestly do. China is fascinating.

And we're all out on the streets for Palestine at the weekend.
You do this in China and you're in prison or worse.
It rubs me the wrong way entirely.
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