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For some bizarre reason, both yourself and perhaps Cornu seem to have formed this quite strange impression that I am somehow implying that it's okay for Putin to invade places because there are nazis in those places.100% this. I think its generally accepted there are plenty of pricks in Ukraine and thats been highlighted on here for a while. Those pricks are not the cause of what Russia are doing. Also, it was generally accepted that there was merit in Putin's point about his not wanting NATO creeping right up to his doorstep. But that sympathy has completely disintegrated by now. The only thing that matters now is that is that Russian Hitler is unleashing the full might of the Russian army on their neighbour for absolutely no good reason at all. People who have nothing to do with anything to do with the cunts @Cormcolash is obsessed with, are getting killed or displaced.
The analogy made by @seanc with Ireland is spot-on. I remember during the Brexit shite one of the Tory leave cunts trying to liken Britain's leaving the EU with one of the ex-USSR states leaving the USSR. The backlash was fucking huge. Moscow have, throughout their history, been absolute tyrants to anyone who has even a shred of their own identity, and they're fucked if they're letting people speak their own language. They loaded people from Romania, Hungary, Lithuania, etc onto trains and shipped them to Siberia, for no reason whatsoever. Internment anyone? And something people in the North often, rightly, say is that people who don't live in the north and who didn't live through the troubles, have no fucking clue what it was like, or what the nuances of day-to-day life were like. And thats no different here, in ex-USSR states. People in the west have no clue about the disdain people feel towards Moscow for the atrocities of the past. And that hatred and shared history is something that unites those states, and explains why they are the ones leading the calls for sanctions, action, support, etc, for Ukraine.
I can totally relate to how Latvians (and I know 10s to 100s of them by now) feel towards Russia because it is similar to how the Irish feel towards Britain (and by Britain, I mean the establishment, not average Brits on the street who are generally sound). I say 'similar', but not the same, because Ireland will never again be invaded by the Brits. Here in the Baltics they fully expect Russia to try it on at some point in the future. I don't think we can appreciate the anxiety that causes.
And, on Finland, I work with a guy from there. Lets not underestimate the level of hatred the Finns have towards Russia (btw, @Cormcolash, plenty of nazis in Finland too, AND they're talking about joining NATO - should Putin attack them also?). Finland take great pride in having defeated Russia in a war. They hold no fear of Moscow and Moscow's threatening Finland off NATO is only going to serve to push them into it.
There are many NATO countries bordering Russia so Putin's argument about having NATO on his doorstep is a bit weak. His issue, for now, is specifically with Ukraine. If he gets his way there, do you think he'll stop at that? Maybe, but people here don't believe that.
I think the disconnect here is you're saying that "X==bad" for all values of X, which is kind of annoying when we're here playing the game of "what's to be done about Russia invading Ukraine?". What's to be done, @Cormcolash ? What's the One Simple Trick we can do to fix it all (and you have to start from here, not use a time machine to make the anarchists win the Spanish Civil War)?Anyway look I guess I can put it simply for you
it was of its time but has arguably out-stayed its welcome.NATO = most definitely bad, simply a tool of US aggression usually disguised as 'peace-keeping'
disband NATO and tell the EU to not get involved would be good.I think the disconnect here is you're saying that "X==bad" for all values of X, which is kind of annoying when we're here playing the game of "what's to be done about Russia invading Ukraine?". What's to be done, @Cormcolash ? What's the One Simple Trick we can do to fix it all (and you have to start from here, not use a time machine to make the anarchists win the Spanish Civil War)?
There's a lot of things to be done, a lot of ways to send aid that isn't just more guns and shit. The sanctions are a good idea, but you also have to look at them and say "Do the rich people even feel it?"I think the disconnect here is you're saying that "X==bad" for all values of X, which is kind of annoying when we're here playing the game of "what's to be done about Russia invading Ukraine?". What's to be done, @Cormcolash ? What's the One Simple Trick we can do to fix it all (and you have to start from here, not use a time machine to make the anarchists win the Spanish Civil War)?
Well I'm pretty sure NATO hasn't stopped Putin going in to the Baltic states reallyit was of its time but has arguably out-stayed its welcome.
however, given what Putin's at now, if NATO didn't exist, do you think the Baltic states would still be independent?
the main reason i post this (it's basically a 10 minute long video version of the twitter thread on aviation i posted) is that at 7:49 in, i discovered that aeroflot is (or was) the official carrier for man utd. how did that happen?
please feel free to elaborate on this.Well I'm pretty sure NATO hasn't stopped Putin going in to the Baltic states really
Basically everything that is 'to be done' is already too late, the situation is already totally fucked and sending more guns over there sure isn't going to make it any better, and applying sanctions that affect millions of normal people in Russia without really doing too much damage to the actual oligarchs whilst continuing to completely ignore all the dirty tax haven money going through the likes of Ireland from all over the world, it's just kind of bullshit isn't it?
Like, there's a lot of things that can have and are getting sanctioned that are fair enough. It's just every time I hear sanctions etc etc like literally the first thing I think is "And what about Saudi Arabia then?"
Fuck it, then I'm like "What about fucking Denis O'Brien then?"
IMO the Russian people being prompted by sanctions to rise up and topple Putin is pure fantasy. His political position might be weakened by sanctions, which might allow a rival to take over, but even that's a long shot.What's happening to the Russian public will have one of two outcomes. Either they'll get angry and will rise up
it is while he still controls the army and the police. Once he starts to lose his grasp on them, and the sanctions affect them and their families every bit as much, all bets are off.IMO the Russian people being prompted by sanctions to rise up and topple Putin is pure fantasy. His political position might be weakened by sanctions, which might allow a rival to take over, but even that's a long shot.
Ukraine's best shot is to come up with some concessions to Russia that'll allow them to withdraw without losing too much face BEFORE the the land army gets to Kiev
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