The Russian invasion of Ukraine (10 Viewers)

[Unicron]

I'd imagine they prefer when things are just trundling them into the stratosphere of wealth rather than being sanctioned and hounded.

They probably also prefer being sanctioned, hounded, and alive to dead and their portfolios remaining healthy. I don't know if the oligarchs as a collective would or could go on a solo run (can a collective go on a solo run), they have the money but do they have the physical force to oust him. But they certainly have the wealth to influence those that might.

Changing the subject a bit. This whole restoration of a greater Russia/Ukraine was never a real country thing. Does that make a lie of the it's expansionist NATO's fault line? Obviously Ukraine as a member of NATO would make the ultimate goal of unifying the 2 more difficult but if that was always the aim then something like this would have always been a possibility.

 

[egg_]

I'm sure this isn't one definitive reason for all this. There appears to be a "greater Russia" thing going on, that's for sure, and probably many powerful people in Russia care about that. Maybe including Putin? I don't know. But also there probably is genuine paranoia about NATO expansion, justified or not. And oligarchs with an eye on Ukrainian resources. And old-style warmongers mongering war, etc etc

 

[ann post]

I'm sure this isn't one definitive reason for all this. There appears to be a "greater Russia" thing going on, that's for sure, and probably many powerful people in Russia care about that. Maybe including Putin? I don't know. But also there probably is genuine paranoia about NATO expansion, justified or not. And oligarchs with an eye on Ukrainian resources. And old-style warmongers mongering war, etc etc

Those press pieces that were run in two russian imprints and then redacted were all about greater russia - they are a few pages back. Here's one of them. The lines about putin were very similar in both.

Наступление России и нового мира

Новый мир рождается на наших глазах. Военная операция России на Украине открыла новую эпоху — причем сразу в трех измерениях. И конечно, в четвертом,... РИА Новости, 26.02.2022

web.archive.org

@Unicron RE: hounding oligarch's i was reffering to the EC release which is pages and pages ago too

Press corner

Highlights, press releases and speeches

ec.europa.eu

 

[egg_]

Those press pieces that were run in two russian imprints and then redacted were all about greater russia - they are a few pages back. Here's one of them. The lines about putin were very similar in both.

Ah yeah, read that, but the story he's selling to people isn't necessarily the real reason he's doing what he's doing

 

[magicbastarder]

how does ukraine figure in the coal/gas/natural resources of 'greater russia'?

 

[Unicron]

how does ukraine figure in the coal/gas/natural resources of 'greater russia'?

This is one thing I don't get. Do they have big resources themselves? Currently they pipe a lot of Russian gas through Ukraine and Poland into the rest of Europe. That undersea pipeline to Germany that got kyboshed because of the invasion would have presumably been good for the Russian fossil fuel industries.

 

[ann post]

how does ukraine figure in the coal/gas/natural resources of 'greater russia'?

from stuff i read online all the good mining is east of the river that runs through Kyiv. the same article this is stole from said Ukraine has 3-400 years reserves of coal.

 

[magicbastarder]

would be curious as to what would happen to the world of crypto if this did become a reality. worldwide clampdown?

Could Putin be exploring cryptocurrencies to bypass western sanctions?

Debate rages over whether Russian banks could use crypto such as bitcoin as an alternative currency exchange

www.theguardian.com

 

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[Cormcolash]

Incidentally, the Latvian army (the reserve army at least) wear a swastika on their uniform. That symbol has different meaning here to the rest of the world.

That's what they told you, anyway!

 

[Cormcolash]

Changing the subject a bit. This whole restoration of a greater Russia/Ukraine was never a real country thing. Does that make a lie of the it's expansionist NATO's fault line? Obviously Ukraine as a member of NATO would make the ultimate goal of unifying the 2 more difficult but if that was always the aim then something like this would have always been a possibility.

What is NATO's purpose, since the Cold War ended? And where does NATO get it's 'clout' from?

 

[egg_]

I presume I don't need to say this here, but just in case - lads, if ye get a request to lodge money in a random bank account then for god's sake have a bit of sense. I'm seeing this shit all over facebook from people who should know better. There are better ways to support the Ukrainians

 

[Cornu Ammonis]

I donated to the Red Cross via an official Revolut push notification. Searched on Twitter first and honestly hadn’t a clue what was legit or not.

 

[Unicron]

What is NATO's purpose, since the Cold War ended? And where does NATO get it's 'clout' from?

Yeah, I wonder why countries, especially eastern european former soviet bloc ones might consider joining it to be a good idea.

 

[flashback]

Yeah, I wonder why countries, especially eastern european former soviet bloc ones might consider joining it to be a good idea.

Article 5 I guess? If you attack us we'll sic the big boys after you. It's an insurance policy.

Same reason that Ukraine told Russia they can have their nuclear weapons back, as long as they respect Ukrainian borders. Basically people are nervous about having a border with Russia.

 

[Cormcolash]

One could easily argue that if you're a country bordering Russia, making moves to join NATO is a pretty sure way to get yourself invaded. It's almost as if Russia don't like the idea of being surrounded by countries that have missiles pointing at them.

 

[pete]

Ukraine Interactive map - Ukraine Latest news on live map - liveuamap.com

Live Universal Awareness Map Liveuamap is a leading independent global news and information site dedicated to factual reporting of a variety of important topics including conflicts, human rights issues, protests, terrorism, weapons deployment, health matters, natural disasters, and weather...

liveuamap.com

 

[flashback]

Yeah, I wonder why countries, especially eastern european former soviet bloc ones might consider joining it to be a good idea.

realised this was a rhetorical question... doh.

 

[egg_]

One could easily argue that if you're a country bordering Russia, making moves to join NATO is a pretty sure way to get yourself invaded. It's almost as if Russia don't like the idea of being surrounded by countries that have missiles pointing at them.

Kinda surprised the Finns are talking about it now tbh. They've done fine out of it this long, like

 

[Unicron]

One could easily argue that if you're a country bordering Russia, making moves to join NATO is a pretty sure way to get yourself invaded. It's almost as if Russia don't like the idea of being surrounded by countries that have missiles pointing at them.

That's true, and it'd be really easy to get into a circular loop on it. I'd be far more sympathetic to the Russian point of view on NATO where it comes to somewhere like Turkey which, when they joined in 52, seemed like a handy place for the Americans to have some airbases and point missiles at Russia, a more overtly aggressive move by the US/NATO.

A thing I don't understand in terms of the idea of aggression towards Russia and objections to the more recent expansion (say from 99 when former warsaw pact countries started to join) is what's the end goal of this NATO expansion supposed to be? Get enough members so that it's surrounded and eventually invade? That doesn't seem all that feasible. What is the actual Russian fear? NATO has an excuse to go to war with Russia now is they wanted it and thus far it hasn't been taken, granted it's only been a week. If it boils down to a sense of humiliation that Russia (the institution and the people running it) feels because countries in the region that used to be under its sphere of influence have sought to distance themselves from that influence then fuck their feelings, it doesn't trump the rights of other nations to do their own thing.