The Russian invasion of Ukraine (3 Viewers)

Cormcolash

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Yeah I agree with ya on that for the most part. It's all much more complicated than we could probably write down, but I'm just thinking about Catalunya right now, another place where the population wants a vote, isn't going to get one, and the people who tried it have been branded as criminals - yet it's very obvious that if given a vote, they'd vote for independence..
See I was thinking about it earlier, it's not really a case of what country people want to be part of etc etc, it's more like who people see as oppressing them most and how/whether they want to get away from that. I heard earlier, haven't checked it mind, that Scotland is like the only country in the world that voted against its own independence. And that's just cause the Brits lied like fuck to them and they were foolish enough to believe it.

Edit: Scotland certainly not the only country to vote against independence, anyway, haha
 
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Deadmanposting

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It's all much more complicated than we could probably write down
Thanks for saying that

I just got out of bed and came downstairs cos I was lying up there and realised I haven't clue what was going on there in Donbas before 2014 beyond the few bits I've read and I've taken that and some stuff about the north as being enough to form a full opinion on what was going on there

Ok, I can sleep now

Back to bed
 

rettucs

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I dunno, Corm. I absolutely see what you are saying.

But you can have all those things and not know how a vote will go.
One thing speaking a language, it's another thing to vote to live under an autocracy.
You know up the north better than most; you know it's complicated about who would vote to stay or leave when push came to shove.

Sounds like every former Russian colony has some version of these populations.

But one-sided votes are not how you break up countries. You need buy-in from everyone.
No more than Latvia's nutters couldn't hold a vote and say "We're fucking off now and taking the land with us".
No more than the Shinners could call a vote in the north the same way.
Just drives more grievance and a recipe for conflict.


The votes are bullshit because Putin isn't interested in the votes for themselves or any real results, but solely as a tool in his war of annexation.

Or that's how I see it.
exactly. By extension entire cities in the 3 Baltic states should be given back to Russia (I'm thinking Narva in Estonia (approx 80% pro-Russian), and Daugavpils in Latvia (similar)). Just cos cunts living there want it, don't make it so. If they want to be part of Russia let them fucking go to Russia.

I watched a documentary on Netflix called Karosta, about a Soviet enclave in Latvia, just north of the city of Leipaija (which would be a wealth enough coastal city). The story is that it was a Soviet military enclave with miles and miles of military barracks, and some old soviet style residential block houses. When Latvia got its independence in the early 90s, the army pulled out, but all the russians in the residential buildings were left behind. The Latvian govt refused to invest in the area and it went to shit pretty quickly. But we're talking about russians who will refuse, ever, to admit they are anything other than russian and where they are living is anywhere other than the soviet union. They refuse to learn the national language and they refuse to integrate. They just fucking complain and talk about how great things were under the old regime.

The point of the above is, thats pretty much the mindset of the people we're talking about. People with a chip on their shoulder, who won't be happy until the USSR is reinstated.

I was in Karosta last year btw. There's a soviet military prison that's been turned into a museum in the old barracks. Its one of the only buildings left standing, and its real interesting to visit. The area in general is much improved than what was depicted in that documentary (which is from 2009). So a bunch of whingy russians were the beneficiaries of funding from both Latvian taxpayers, and EU funding.
 

Unicron

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On the voting thing, I see that the NI census results are out today.

42% identifying at Roman Catholic

38% identifying as some form of prod with 20% as no religion or other.

Border poll now iinnit???

However:

Census results: national Identity:
British only: 31.9%
Irish only: 29.1%
Northern Irish only: 19.8%
British & NIrish only: 7.95%
Irish & NIrish only: 1.76%
British, Irish & NIrish only: 1.47%

Didn't know Rory McIlroy made up 1.47% of the population of the north.
 

ann post

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On the voting thing, I see that the NI census results are out today.

42% identifying at Roman Catholic

38% identifying as some form of prod with 20% as no religion or other.

Border poll now iinnit???

However:

Census results: national Identity:
British only: 31.9%
Irish only: 29.1%
Northern Irish only: 19.8%
British & NIrish only: 7.95%
Irish & NIrish only: 1.76%
British, Irish & NIrish only: 1.47%

Didn't know Rory McIlroy made up 1.47% of the population of the north.

there will be a fair bit in the fringes there too.

Like a sub genre of 'do you identify as really, really really really, catholic, or just a bit' would tell more.

There were things i read about 15 years back that had a sub genre of 'would you marry someone from another religion' and that kinda told the story of where people drew lines in life.

Anywhooooo what this means in the coming year or two is that unless westminster intervene hard, there isn't a hope of stormont assembling.
 

Deadmanposting

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Are there any Russian stand up comedians?
There's one lad that just got deemed a foreign agent for saying the wrong thing, and he's married to their most famous singer who asked to be also named a foreign agent as a protest against the war

Not sure if he's stand up or comedic actor

They're getting on a bit, she's 73 like
 

flashback

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interactions with Russians have lead me to think that Russians don't really do "jokes" in the normal ha ha sense. They make statements that are vignettes of bleakness and cynicism, which are kind of amusing, but only after you've managed to get over that initial bleak realization part.
 

Deadmanposting

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interactions with Russians have lead me to think that Russians don't really do "jokes" in the normal ha ha sense. They make statements that are vignettes of bleakness and cynicism, which are kind of amusing, but only after you've managed to get over that initial bleak realization part.

Their world is the Minor Complaints thread, with occasional dispatches to the Major


The ones I know have been cheerful enough though.
That said, it's been two gorgeous young women that worked here at various times.
These are people that experience life differently, no matter what culture they are in.
 

flashback

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The lads I'd be interacting with would be split into two camps. Aging Soviets and the younger crew. The aging soviets are the lads that keep making references to various events or ideas which I'm guessing were something that happened in USSR, followed by "and we all know how that worked out". :silence:

Those guys have the good jokes.
 

hydromancer

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exactly. By extension entire cities in the 3 Baltic states should be given back to Russia (I'm thinking Narva in Estonia (approx 80% pro-Russian), and Daugavpils in Latvia (similar)). Just cos cunts living there want it, don't make it so. If they want to be part of Russia let them fucking go to Russia.

I watched a documentary on Netflix called Karosta, about a Soviet enclave in Latvia, just north of the city of Leipaija (which would be a wealth enough coastal city). The story is that it was a Soviet military enclave with miles and miles of military barracks, and some old soviet style residential block houses. When Latvia got its independence in the early 90s, the army pulled out, but all the russians in the residential buildings were left behind. The Latvian govt refused to invest in the area and it went to shit pretty quickly. But we're talking about russians who will refuse, ever, to admit they are anything other than russian and where they are living is anywhere other than the soviet union. They refuse to learn the national language and they refuse to integrate. They just fucking complain and talk about how great things were under the old regime.

The point of the above is, thats pretty much the mindset of the people we're talking about. People with a chip on their shoulder, who won't be happy until the USSR is reinstated.

I was in Karosta last year btw. There's a soviet military prison that's been turned into a museum in the old barracks. Its one of the only buildings left standing, and its real interesting to visit. The area in general is much improved than what was depicted in that documentary (which is from 2009). So a bunch of whingy russians were the beneficiaries of funding from both Latvian taxpayers, and EU funding.

I doubt that they could live in Russia evan if they wanted to. There is probably no automatic right or evan process for them to do so. Not sure why but I think they would have been more or less abandoned by the Russian/Soviet state. It's perhaps not even their fault if large scale political events out of there control happen around them. Thats not to apologize for anything of course but it's a crazy history.
 

JohnnyRaz

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All bullshit and propaganda aside - press ganging folks to be canon fodder in a failing war is one of the things that bring autocratic regimes down?? (Not in isolation admittedly)
 

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