[Sunday Business Post] Irish music industry hit by downloading (1 Viewer)

[pete]

Mundy has decided to become a plumber and leave music for the moment.
this is the god's honest truth.

there's good money in plumbing.

 

[ernesto]

there's good money in plumbing.

"the only trade that isnt a trade"

accordin to my da its easy money
my uncle were a plumber

 

[Scientician 0.8]

Alan, there also, I would guess, was a lot less musicians putting out tunes. I know there has always been lots of music out there, but we've never seen these kinds of levels, because any monkey with a grand to spare can buy a laptop and soft studio and bang out some music, as far as electronic music goes. How many aspirational girl bands and boy groups have been spawned by Pop Idol and the like. Celebrity and 'successful' careers have never been so close to the masses. Quality issues aside again, the over saturation of the market devalues the product financially. Unfortunately, as far as physical product goes, that value is almost zero now - that doesn't mean we value the music itself any less, just the product.

Can I quote all this in my thesis?

 

[desertedvillage]

It's simple: Go to gigs and buy records on small labels and always steal from major labels or buy them second hand thus supporting your local record shop.
It kind of bothers me a when my love for an artist causes me to end up paying for vinyl/CDs on major labels.

I increasingly find myself wondering just why we release physical formats when we don't make any money from Deserted Village anyway. The label makes money which goes into releasing more CDs. What's the point in having a physical copy of something which was created entirely digitally? Or it could just be an incentive to have better artwork.

 

[pete]

It's simple: Go to gigs and buy records on small labels and always steal from major labels or buy them second hand thus supporting your local record shop.
It kind of bothers me a when my love for an artist causes me to end up paying for vinyl/CDs on major labels.

I increasingly find myself wondering just why we release physical formats when we don't make any money from Deserted Village anyway. The label makes money which goes into releasing more CDs. What's the point in having a physical copy of something which was created entirely digitally? Or it could just be an incentive to have better artwork.

fetishising the music, innit

 

[ernesto]

i just found out my friends band are releasing a single on the 8th Feb. i asked them if they could put a physical copy by for me when ill be at home and buy it from them.
and the singer said "no, we have no physical copies left, they're all gone out for promos, just go to iTunes store and buy it".


...what??!

fact is i already have the mp3 but i fancied something as a keepsake and a bit of the artwork.
gggrrrrrrr. Promos, they're just going to bin it anyway.

 

[hugh]

I think singles are really just promotional devices to generate airplay these days. They are not regarded as something that anyone would normally want a physical copy of.

i just found out my friends band are releasing a single on the 8th Feb. i asked them if they could put a physical copy by for me when ill be at home and buy it from them.
and the singer said "no, we have no physical copies left, they're all gone out for promos, just go to iTunes store and buy it".


...what??!

fact is i already have the mp3 but i fancied something as a keepsake and a bit of the artwork.
gggrrrrrrr. Promos, they're just going to bin it anyway.

 

[piratio]

actually no, I was speaking to you about how you value things less because you are a thief. and obviously I have in-depth knowledge of your personal value system regarding stolen and non-stolen goods or services.

Why you trying to insult me here mate? Fair enough, we disagree and may never agree, but don't insult me because it weakens your dignity, makes me disregard anything you say to me and takes the fun out of having a perfectly intelligent and, I feel, important argument that affects us all, it seems.

Vinnie may not agree with me, but at least he's putting up a fucking good argument and making me think about his point of view - I'm not going to right him off just because I disagree with him.

I'm gonna hold my hands up here and say, fair cop, I don't like paying for CDs/MP3s/Whatever.

In my work with Net-Lab, my aim is (some might feel ironically) to help people make a career out of their music and to find ways of making a living from this, so they can develop that career to it's logical end. All I'm trying to say here is that there are other ways of making a living from it. I have no problem with people making money from music, I don't really have a problem with people making money from CDs. All I'm doing here is trying to point out that the sea is changing here and people may get caught short if they are hoping that people are just going to stop downloading.

Ah here now, hippy shit? That's not how I feel at all. I was just creating two cartoon extremes earlier in the thread to make a point. Im not agint your approach but I dont think your approach should involve subverting other people's through advocating odious practices (never paying for anything) simply because they already exist. That's what I meant by fox with no tail - it works great for us so everyone should do it. I genuinely mean it when I say fair play for trying to innovate - up with that sort of thing.

Vinne, honestly mate, If I went to see your band play, and I thought you were good, I'd buy your CD or t-shirt. I'd even cheer like a fucking monkey. Promise. You're right, I do feel pretty strongly about this, and maybe I am being a bit arrogant about it, because it has been a limited success and may not work for everybody, so sorry for coming on strong. I might steal your Fox without a tail thing though, cos that's brilliant! Our solicitors can argue over the intellectual property on that one

.|..|

 

[egg_]

I think singles are really just promotional devices to generate airplay these days. They are not regarded as something that anyone would normally want a physical copy of.

That's the way we've been working lately anyway. No real point in making physical copies of a single, it's expensive and/or time-consuming (if you make the CD-Rs yourself), just so your friends can have a keepsake. Phantom doesn't care if you've a physical copy available to buy

 

[piratio]

Apologies... went in for an edit but left it too long...

"I'm gonna hold my hands up here and say, fair cop, I don't like paying for CDs/MP3s/Whatever. If that makes me scum, then so be it. There are many areas of culture where it's acceptable for it to be free. Art Galleries for example, are generally free. You may counter with 'But you don't get to take the sculptures home', and you'd be totally right, they frown on that in fact, but I don't really want to own the music either, I just want to hear it - ownership is something imposed on me by the market..."

 

[avernus]

Why you trying to insult me here mate? Fair enough, we disagree and may never agree, but don't insult me because it weakens your dignity, makes me disregard anything you say to me and takes the fun out of having a perfectly intelligent and, I feel, important argument that affects us all, it seems.

Vinnie may not agree with me, but at least he's putting up a fucking good argument and making me think about his point of view - I'm not going to right him off just because I disagree with him.

I'm gonna hold my hands up here and say, fair cop, I don't like paying for CDs/MP3s/Whatever.

In my work with Net-Lab, my aim is (some might feel ironically) to help people make a career out of their music and to find ways of making a living from this, so they can develop that career to it's logical end. All I'm trying to say here is that there are other ways of making a living from it. I have no problem with people making money from music, I don't really have a problem with people making money from CDs. All I'm doing here is trying to point out that the sea is changing here and people may get caught short if they are hoping that people are just going to stop downloading.

I'm afraid your mistake here is that you took what I said in earnest, despite the glaringly obvious sarcasm. how could I possibly know anything about you or your system of values? exactly.

Incidentally, it is ironic that you help people make a career out of something for which you yourself have no desire to pay for. it's also pretty bizarre.

 

[aoboa]

Further proof that the music industry has gone insane:
http://music.guardian.co.uk/pop/story/0,,2240966,00.html

 

[broken arm]

cheap flights,
buy one get one free,
free mobile phones with contracts,
car leasing
etc etc etc.

 

[Vinnie]

The day people started calling Robbie Williams an "amazing entertainer" is the day the irreversible slide began.

 

[avernus]

Further proof that the music industry has gone insane:
http://music.guardian.co.uk/pop/story/0,,2240966,00.html

"Sir Paul McCartney will mark his outstanding contribution award with a medley of his greatest hits to close the show. For the second year running, it will live on ITV, on February 20."


Oh man. Medleys suck.

 

[RED(tape)MENACE]

Nobody can argue that record companies contracts with artists and their business practices need reform.
They still deduct percentages for breakages and returns (of faulty cd/lp/md) for digital sales.
No joke.

However, to add another idiotic sweeping statement to this veritable mountain of them - just because banks are nasty ripoff bastards doesn't mean we should all don balaclavas and start stealing from them.

Pete - on the issue of copyright etc.
What if someone stole thumped?
And threw up a shitload of banner ads and started making a load of money from it?
Wouldn't that be wrong?

My Cd collection numbers around 60 now, where it used to be about 200-odd... I have 4500+ albums on MP3. I'm not ashamed of it, in terms of it's authenticity.

Congratulations. Now 99% of your music sounds much shittier.

I also haven't paid for the vast majority of it. When I can pay for it, I do. That might make me a criminal, but I certainly don't feel I am doing harm to any major label bands.

How come you get to decide when it's cool to steal shit?

The one thing that the industry refuses to accept is that huge numbers of people are asking for, through the action of 'pirating', freely available media. As long as they refuse to budge, people will keep doing what they want.

I think everyone accepts that people are asking for free media.
In the words of Skin though, "It doesn't make it right."

I don't think the outlook for the artist is that bleak - it is for the recording companies but I'd be more hopeful for the artist.

Look at it this way - are you more or less likely to make a living from music with or without a parasitical middle man between you and the consumer?

The issue of record company/artist contracts is a seperate one.
You can't seperate stealing from record companise from stealing from artists.
Same thing.

MP3's shouldn't be thought of as "the music". They sound nothing like cd's or vinyl. People should get their ears syringed.

+100

The only thing I can say to counter that is listen to Ross Flight's Forgotten EP on Net-Lab. It was made in Ableton Live with a Line6 PreAmp and a Mic. All the instruments on there are real, not sample based - guitar, piano, flute, some strings, all played by Ross and the quality of the recording is immaculate.

Dude.
That is a WORLD away from recording a rock band.
You need good sounding rooms, with quality equipment, good maintenance and experienced people.
That's apples and oranges compared to one person recording everything themselves bit by bit at home.
Are you suggesting that U2, Shellac or Large Mound all pile their instruments into a bedroom and record their next records into one microphone?

If people want to start dumping their CD collections in favour of inferior and soulless MP3s then I'm glad because there's plenty of us out there who will buy their discs at fire sale prices.

Kinda like how everyone burned their vinyl when they got cds?
And then realised 10 years later that the record sounded way better in the first place and they hosed themselves?
That could never happen again... could it?

"I'm gonna hold my hands up here and say, fair cop, I don't like paying for CDs/MP3s/Whatever. If that makes me scum, then so be it. There are many areas of culture where it's acceptable for it to be free. Art Galleries for example, are generally free. You may counter with 'But you don't get to take the sculptures home', and you'd be totally right, they frown on that in fact, but I don't really want to own the music either, I just want to hear it - ownership is something imposed on me by the market..."

Ownership is imposed on you by the necessity for those people who create the music you like to eat and heat their fucking houses.
The art gallery paid the artist for the sculpture.
Hence, he eats and feeds his kids.
Would it be cool for you to call around to his workshop whenever you liked and scope out his work for free?
Either you buy it, download music that is legitimately available for free or make your own.

 

[coast to coast]

There's a line in that Napster debate where Charlie Rose says - you can't fight technology. The complaints made by Record Industry are moral complaints in an economic realm - fact is people steal/sample/share music (however you put it) and are going to. Economically, instead of reacting to the new development of the market, they've just bitched and whined and kept on releasing and promoting the same kind of X-Fact/Pop-Idol cheap/quick thrill stuff. I don't think they have a moral leg to stand on because they've never acted morally, only economically.

Also, isn't it technically illegal to lend CDs to your friends, given that they nearly all have "no unauthorised lending" printed on them. When is the lending authorised and by whom? Clearly its not authorised by me to lend it to my mates, otherwise I could use that as a defense for sharing music on the internet.

Nothing is ready for the complexity of this situation.

 

[Denny Oubidoux]

what is the deal, legally speaking, with second records and cds anyway? is it a grey area or just perfectly legal?

 

[broken arm]

on the issue of sound quality...

It always reminds me of those people who try to impress you with their surround sound home cinema system extravaganza - WHO GIVES A FUCK. you'll be dead soon - spend your time fretting about something important.

 

[Denny Oubidoux]

on the issue of sound quality...

It always reminds me of those people who try to impress you with their surround sound home cinema system extravaganza - WHO GIVES A FUCK. you'll be dead soon - spend your time fretting about something important.

thats a bit silly