[Sunday Business Post] Irish music industry hit by downloading (4 Viewers)

[piratio]

I'd say .00000000000000000000001% of musicians make a living out of being recording artists and I'd say almost all of those who do spent years gigging their asses off.

Exactly.

A friend who runs a very successful commercial label here in the UK gave me the run down on how it works for him (His label, by the way, is probably one of the top five most instantly recognisable label names in electronic music, so I trust his opinion over most others). He pays most of the artist he releases an advance. Mostly, he'll never see that money back. The odd time, he'll make a lot of money from a release. Most of that money, for him, goes on covering previous loses; hardly what one might call a 'profit', then if there's much left over, it goes to the artist. This is even more true with big labels who LOAN you money, not throw it at you.

One of the reasons that Net-Lab has become so popular amongst our rostered artists is that people are coming around to what Alan has just stated above. THERE IS NO MONEY IN RECORDING ANYMORE unless you are Kylie or Britney. Even U2, the single biggest band in the world, make all their real money from Merch and Touring.

A CD is a really elaborate flyer these days, so why not make it cheap and easy to distribute. And as for 'quality' recordings and associated costs, personal taste aside, it does not take a extra zeros to put out a good quality recording. It takes talent and patience.

Oh, and cocaine... lots of cocaine!

 

[aoboa]

But there used to be a little money until people started stealing all the music.

 

[Flux]

MP3's shouldn't be thought of as "the music". They sound nothing like cd's or vinyl. People should get their ears syringed.

 

[egg_]

And as for 'quality' recordings and associated costs, personal taste aside, it does not take a extra zeros to put out a good quality recording. It takes talent and patience.

C'mon now Ted. This may be true for electronic music, but with rock music you get what you pay for when it comes to recording, up to a point at least. Would Mumblin Deaf Ro's album have sounded better if he'd added a zero to his budget? Not the slightest offense to anyone involved, I think they all did a brilliant job, but I don't think there's any doubt about the answer. More time, better equipment, it really does make a difference

 

[broken arm]

MP3's shouldn't be thought of as "the music". They sound nothing like cd's or vinyl. People should get their ears syringed.

sure they're bad for d'environment.

PVC! do you know what this stuff does to kids?

 

[Vinnie]

A CD is a really elaborate flyer these days, so why not make it cheap and easy to distribute. And as for 'quality' recordings and associated costs, personal taste aside, it does not take a extra zeros to put out a good quality recording. It takes talent and patience.

No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no

 

[Flux]

Spending big money is no guarantee it'll sound any good either.

 

[piratio]

Weeird Double Post - Pete - Delete me please!!!

 

[piratio]

I know what you mean Alan but unfortunately, those days are gone... And Musicians, Labels and all the rest moaning about it isn't going to stop people from stealing it.

Like it or not lads, we live in a society where large groups of people decide our culture, laws and all sorts of other policies. Lots of people, including myself, would love to be able to live on my creative abilities but that's not based in any reality for the majority of people.

Alan, there also, I would guess, was a lot less musicians putting out tunes. I know there has always been lots of music out there, but we've never seen these kinds of levels, because any monkey with a grand to spare can buy a laptop and soft studio and bang out some music, as far as electronic music goes. How many aspirational girl bands and boy groups have been spawned by Pop Idol and the like. Celebrity and 'successful' careers have never been so close to the masses. Quality issues aside again, the over saturation of the market devalues the product financially. Unfortunately, as far as physical product goes, that value is almost zero now - that doesn't mean we value the music itself any less, just the product.

Most of us, as far as a career goes, will never make it further than our home towns, in terms of any real impact, if we wait for the big money, or indeed it seems, any money from recording. Get on the road. Sell some t-shirts and ring tones [There is more money made from ring tone versions of top 20 tunes than the sale of the singles themselves!] and get a bit of sense! It's a job, not a lottery ticket and the competition has never been tougher.

Barry (Party Pooper)

 

[piratio]

No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no

Good point.

 

[Vinnie]

I dont see how the saturation of the market with novelty pop & lifestyle electronica can be seen as an excuse to disregard our ethics.

I know what you mean Alan but unfortunately, those days are gone... And Musicians, Labels and all the rest moaning about it isn't going to stop people from stealing it.

Like it or not lads, we live in a society where large groups of people decide our culture, laws and all sorts of other policies. Lots of people, including myself, would love to be able to live on my creative abilities but that's not based in any reality for the majority of people.

Alan, there also, I would guess, was a lot less musicians putting out tunes. I know there has always been lots of music out there, but we've never seen these kinds of levels, because any monkey with a grand to spare can buy a laptop and soft studio and bang out some music, as far as electronic music goes. How many aspirational girl bands and boy groups have been spawned by Pop Idol and the like. Celebrity and 'successful' careers have never been so close to the masses. Quality issues aside again, the over saturation of the market devalues the product financially. Unfortunately, as far as physical product goes, that value is almost zero now - that doesn't mean we value the music itself any less, just the product.

Most of us, as far as a career goes, will never make it further than our home towns, in terms of any real impact, if we wait for the big money, or indeed it seems, any money from recording. Get on the road. Sell some t-shirts and ring tones [There is more money made from ring tone versions of top 20 tunes than the sale of the singles themselves!] and get a bit of sense! It's a job, not a lottery ticket and the competition has never been tougher.

Barry (Party Pooper)

 

[piratio]

C'mon now Ted. This may be true for electronic music, but with rock music you get what you pay for when it comes to recording, up to a point at least. Would Mumblin Deaf Ro's album have sounded better if he'd added a zero to his budget? Not the slightest offense to anyone involved, I think they all did a brilliant job, but I don't think there's any doubt about the answer. More time, better equipment, it really does make a difference

The only thing I can say to counter that is listen to Ross Flight's Forgotten EP on Net-Lab. It was made in Ableton Live with a Line6 PreAmp and a Mic. All the instruments on there are real, not sample based - guitar, piano, flute, some strings, all played by Ross and the quality of the recording is immaculate. Except for the cost of the equipment, [about £2k sterling by my count], the recording cost him nothing but time and it bears no real difference to some of the later 65 Days of Static albums, save for the fact that they are a band and he is solo, so I'll stick to my point.

Also, Devendra Banhart's Cripple Crow album, which made him a millionaire, was recorded on a 4 track I heard he found in a skip.

It's all relative.

 

[Anthony]

it does not take a extra zeros to put out a good quality recording.

Yes it does.

Sooner or later everyone will think like this. I want your music/art/life, I want it now and I want it for free.

 

[Vinnie]

Good point.

I was too flabberghasted to respond with anything else.

 

[piratio]

I dont see how the saturation of the market with novelty pop & lifestyle electronica can be seen as an excuse to disregard our ethics.

I'm not really commenting on the ethics of stealing music, although that is a part of it. I'm talking about the reality of small time to mid-range recording artists in terms of financial prospects and making a living.

Look, don't listen to me if you think I'm wrong, that's cool mate. I'm just trying to say that there are other ways of being a career musician without worrying about DRM and all that shit. Nobody can steal my music or the music of people on net-lab if we give it away for free. That has zero to do with the quality of the music. It's a choice thing.

 

[Vinnie]

You are advocating the wholesale theft of all music because your mate's label isnt making money? Of course I disagree with you!

Fair play for trying something different with Netlab but dont treat it like the fox with no tail. That's just not right.

I'm not really commenting on the ethics of stealing music, although that is a part of it. I'm talking about the reality of small time to mid-range recording artists in terms of financial prospects and making a living.

Look, don't listen to me if you think I'm wrong, that's cool mate. I'm just trying to say that there are other ways of being a career musician without worrying about DRM and all that shit. Nobody can steal my music or the music of people on net-lab if we give it away for free. That has zero to do with the quality of the music. It's a choice thing.

 

[Mormon Nailer]

You are advocating the wholesale theft of all music because your mate's label isnt making money? Of course I disagree with you!

Fair play for trying something different with Netlab but dont treat it like the fox with no tail. That's just not right.

Do you really see this ultimately as an ethical question?

 

[Unknown Convict]

Devendra Banhart's Cripple Crow album, which made him a millionaire, was recorded on a 4 track I heard he found in a skip.

THERE IS NO MONEY IN RECORDING ANYMORE unless you are Kylie or Britney. Even U2, the single biggest band in the world, make all their real money from Merch and Touring.

wait, i'm confused. is devendra bigger than kylie?

 

[piratio]

You are advocating the wholesale theft of all music because your mate's label isnt making money? Of course I disagree with you!

Fair play for trying something different with Netlab but dont treat it like the fox with no tail. That's just not right.

?? No Vinnie, I'm just saying that the world is changing, and holding on to wishes isn't going to get you anywhere - people have to learn to adapt if they want to survive.

Different example: When I first decided I wanted to be a graphic designer, wages were really good. Then software became more accessible. The market lost it's value. Wages went down. I learnt new skills to make sure I still had a wage. If I went around demanding that I get paid a stale rate, I'd get laughed out of interviews.

I'm not sure what the 'fox with no tail' thing means?

We're not the only people trying something new. Maybe we'll survive, maybe we won't, but I'm not going to actively support, condone or comply with this industry. I want to support my friends and their music. That might sound like a load of hippy shit to you, but we'll have 100 albums/EPs on Net-Lab by this time next year, of which we already have 78 in our possession, all of it adheres to strict quality rules which we uphold to keep a good reputation and keep people coming back, and all of it will be free as long as the artists are happy to do that. You talk about ethics. I reiterate:

Nobody can steal my music or the music of people on net-lab if we give it away for free.

We're trying to find a way for everybody to be happy. Maybe it's not perfect, but we're giving it a go.

 

[piratio]

wait, i'm confused. is devendra bigger than kylie?

He lost it all on the gigi's, so no... not any longer... lol