[Sunday Business Post] Irish music industry hit by downloading (1 Viewer)

[Vinnie]

Do you really see this ultimately as an ethical question?

In it's current state, absolutely no doubt in my mind. Further down the line, who knows?

One other thing, music is one of the only products that could be subjected to this complete subversion of basic commercial practices & standards where businesses & individuals are expected to simply accept that technology has superceded honesty. If folk aren't willing to put something back into music for all the joy they receive from it then they can fuck off - that's not my solution by the way.

 

[avernus]

if you get something for free, you value it less. if you take something of mine, I will find you and I will cut you. It's pretty simple. and I totally think it's dishonest to only download music and pay nothing for it. I think you're a cunt if you think you deserve music for free.

 

[Vinnie]

We're not the only people trying something new. Maybe we'll survive, maybe we won't, but I'm not going to actively support, condone or comply with this industry. I want to support my friends and their music. That might sound like a load of hippy shit to you

Ah here now, hippy shit? That's not how I feel at all. I was just creating two cartoon extremes earlier in the thread to make a point. Im not agint your approach but I dont think your approach should involve subverting other people's through advocating odious practices (never paying for anything) simply because they already exist. That's what I meant by fox with no tail - it works great for us so everyone should do it. I genuinely mean it when I say fair play for trying to innovate - up with that sort of thing.

 

[aoboa]

Free music is not the answer - never will be - can never be.
All these arguements are rubbish, end of story.

 

[pete]

Copyright infringement is neither "theft" nor "stealng", its copyright infringement. I find it incredibly difficult to see how an infintely reproduceable intangible stream of ones and zeroes can be "stolen".

I hope everyone pays royalties to the relevant copyright holders whenever they record a movie off the telly, or buy a secondhand cd, or watch something on tvlinks-style websites, or whistle a song in public, or videotape their kids singing Happy Birthday(c).

It's only right.

 

[Vinnie]

Semantics aside they are completely disingenuous comparisons.

Copyright infringement is neither "theft" nor "stealng", its copyright infringement. I find it incredibly difficult to see how an infintely reproduceable intangible stream of ones and zeroes can be "stolen".

I hope everyone pays royalties to the relevant copyright holders whenever they record a movie off the telly, or buy a secondhand cd, or watch something on tvlinks-style websites, or whistle a song in public, or videotape their kids singing Happy Birthday(c).

It's only right.

 

[aoboa]

Copyright infringement is neither "theft" nor "stealng", its copyright infringement. I find it incredibly difficult to see how an infintely reproduceable intangible stream of ones and zeroes can be "stolen".

I hope everyone pays royalties to the relevant copyright holders whenever they record a movie off the telly, or buy a secondhand cd, or watch something on tvlinks-style websites, or whistle a song in public, or videotape their kids singing Happy Birthday(c).

It's only right.

Legally speaking, is illegally downloading music or film the same as walking into a shop and stealing a cd or dvd?

 

[piratio]

You guys are funny. You seem to be taking the position of the guardians of the music, yet the main value you're putting on it is a financially biased. I don't know if you have music on your myspaces or whatever, but I can go on there and listen to it anytime I want, if I was bothered. does the fact that I have it on my hard drive instead constitute a serious crime? Sure, you can take the tune down when you choose [never mind the fact that, in the background Rupert keeps it FOREVER!], but hey, that's just a detail. I might just decide your [or anybody's] musis is no longer worth keeping, so there's a balance there...

One other thing, music is one of the only products ....

Flickr. YouTube. iStock...

And Avernus...

if you get something for free, you value it less. if you take something of mine, I will find you and I will cut you. It's pretty simple.

Maybe that should read:

if I get something for free, I value it less.

Maybe...

Woo! This is getting all sweaty and sexy now. I haven't had this much fun on Thumped since Dara!

 

[broken arm]

ban the fuck out of them pete.

 

[Vinnie]

Im just responding to things as they appear in this thread. And in fairness Barry, you're the one talking about making a financially viable career in music by giving it away for free. Im talking about sustaining the band that I love being in & have never made a penny from by beseeching people to pay for our music when they can - we depend on sales to some degree. So I dont know how you can call my main value financial. That contradicts ten years of being broke and making music. Im just looking for a little perspective & sanity on the subject.

You guys are funny. You seem to be taking the position of the guardians of the music, yet the main value you're putting on it is a financially biased. I don't know if you have music on your myspaces or whatever, but I can go on there and listen to it anytime I want, if I was bothered. does the fact that I have it on my hard drive instead constitute a serious crime? Sure, you can take the tune down when you choose [never mind the fact that, in the background Rupert keeps it FOREVER!], but hey, that's just a detail. I might just decide your [or anybody's] musis is no longer worth keeping, so there's a balance there...



Flickr. YouTube. iStock...

And Avernus...

Maybe that should read:



Maybe...

Woo! This is getting all sweaty and sexy now. I haven't had this much fun on Thumped since Dara!

 

[MDR]

Do people really and honestly in their heart of hearts see the end of albums/CDs/records? It it not a bit like people predicting that food pills will replace food.

There is an economic downturn internationally and luxury goods are always the first to bite (as the restaurant industry). Record companies have had a bumper few years as people replaced their entire vinyl collections with CDs and companies cashed in on their archives. Record companies have become divorced from their creative roots. You can sell cheap garbage for only so long. All these factors have nothing to do with downloading music and are still very valid reasons why the industry is in trouble.

Anyway, whatever happens I'm going to keep making old-fashioned (if you can call CDs old fashioned) albums. Just because people have cheap crockery from Dunnes home stores, it doesn't stop artists who work in creamics from continuing as they are.

PS: Egg - my album is a bad example re recording budgets as it's already perfect.

PPS: Piratio - fair play to you for defending your point well against the thumped hydra - I disagree with you, but well done anyhow.

 

[avernus]

Y

And Avernus...

Maybe that should read:

actually no, I was speaking to you about how you value things less because you are a thief. and obviously I have in-depth knowledge of your personal value system regarding stolen and non-stolen goods or services.

 

[Unknown Convict]

Copyright infringement is neither "theft" nor "stealng"

sure it is. that's why its referred to as 'intellectual property'.

 

[Kermit McDermott]

Well as many people have pointed out radiohead can afford to say "pay whatever you feel man"

 

[broken arm]

Well as many people have pointed out radiohead can afford to say "pay whatever you feel man"

only because they realised their music is shite.

 

[east hastings]

Mundy has decided to become a plumber and leave music for the moment.
this is the god's honest truth.

 

[pete]

Semantics aside they are completely disingenuous comparisons.

Not really.

I hope everyone pays royalties to the relevant copyright holders whenever they record a movie off the telly

first off, that should have said "... and loan it to someone"

, or buy a secondhand cd

In this case, the artist receives no compensation for the sale of their work.

or watch something on tvlinks-style websites,

That's copyright infringement, just like downloading an mp3.

or whistle a song in public,

strictly speaking, that's an uncompensated performance of a potentially copyrighted work

or videotape their kids singing Happy Birthday(c).

Another uncompensated performance of a copyrighted work (specifically, the melody, written by Patty & Mildred Hill) that makes the current copyright holders (AOL Time Warner) about $2million a year, according to that Snopes piece.

I left out the practice of ripping your purchased CDs to MP3, which is also very much frowned upon.

Legally speaking, is illegally downloading music or film the same as walking into a shop and stealing a cd or dvd?

No. Different legislation, different penalties and, of course, different level of social acceptability.

 

[nlgbbbblth]

Do people really and honestly in their heart of hearts see the end of albums/CDs/records? It it not a bit like people predicting that food pills will replace food.

There is an economic downturn internationally and luxury goods are always the first to bite (as the restaurant industry). Record companies have had a bumper few years as people replaced their entire vinyl collections with CDs and companies cashed in on their archives. Record companies have become divorced from their creative roots. You can sell cheap garbage for only so long. All these factors have nothing to do with downloading music and are still very valid reasons why the industry is in trouble.

Well, some people do - see this article.

But it's a load of bollocks really.

The quote 'you would be hard pressed to find anyone with in Japan with a CD player' is one of the most moronic things I have ever read.
Doesn't Japan have a massive multi-storey Tower that's still doing the business? Along with plenty other shops too. Obi strips are still a big draw.

There are loads of people who still care about physical formats - vinyl and CDs.
The record companies are still churning out remasters and reissues of back catalogue titles and people are still buying them.

I continue to buy as many albums as I did before. More in fact.

I download very little music. The odd track here and there along with an occasional DJ mix / out of print item is about the sum of it. I pay for a good bit of it too.

If people want to start dumping their CD collections in favour of inferior and soulless MP3s then I'm glad because there's plenty of us out there who will buy their discs at fire sale prices.

 

[aoboa]

If people want to start dumping their CD collections in favour of inferior and soulless MP3s then I'm glad because there's plenty of us out there who will buy their discs at fire sale prices.

 

[ernesto]

Well, some people do - see this article.
.

also, from that article:
some tool talking about rebuying some tracks from iTunes:
""They're only 99 cents, and it helps the artist out.""
eh........no it doesn't...10c a song mate.