So, erm, that article in the Times about the bank bailout everyone is reading (1 Viewer)

[Carlow Punks!]

The "men of 1916" thing is really just a metaphor isn't it? Like it's supposed to represent the plenty of honest people in Ireland who fought for Ireland in a similar way: like all the people who worked their arses off in the last 20 years, many of them abroad, living in slum-like conditions in Germany, the UK etc, who suffered many indignities, but who did bring the knowledge, money and experience back to Ireland because it's their home,

what about all the people who lived in slum conditions in Germany (Berlin) in the early nineties, who maybe didn't work their arses off but who did bring the knowledge and experience back to Ireland of how cool a capital city could be...because it's their home

unsung heroes of the early noughties

 

[Deleted member 3435]

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[Lepra]

this video should answer everyones questions

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[nooleen]

the game is afoot

there's an evil hand afoot ahead

 

[snakybus]

what about all the people who lived in slum conditions in Germany (Berlin) in the early nineties, who maybe didn't work their arses off but who did bring the knowledge and experience back to Ireland of how cool a capital city could be...because it's their home

unsung heroes of the early noughties

uh, yeah, them too

 

[nooleen]

personally i'm always singing about those lads

 

[D0njo]

Regardless of your opinion of the WSM, this is a good article-

http://www.wsm.ie/c/imf-arrival-dublin-yesterdays-enemies


"Even the Irish Times has now editorialized against the IMF intervention but like most of the emerging mainstream concerns the Times is not concerned about the cuts in jobs, wages and welfare that the IMF will be used to impose. No their concern is for the loss of 'sovereignty' as IMF intervention results in a rise in populist cross class nationalism, a tide which ironically the ruling party, which is bringing in the IMF to make the cuts it would like to, will be best placed to ride."

 

[ann post]

minimum wage etc..

Siptu warns on minimum wage cut

......Speculation is growing that social welfare will be cut, the minimum wage reduced, new taxes introduced and existing taxes increased as the Government strives to dramatically reduce the cost of running the country and pay for a bank bailout.

The minimum wage of €8.65 - the second highest in Europe - is reportedly in the firing line...

 

[Mormon Nailer]

If we are in this situation becasue Merkel spooked the bond market a couple of weeks ago, and the interest rates still aren't dropping, what is to be lost now by simply withdrawing the guarantee and fucking the Anglo bond holders?

 

[тхеодоре кацзынски]

minimum wage etc..

a cut in the minimum wage to say e8 wouldn't be the worst thing in the world if it got more people working,i'd far rather be employed at e8 an hour than unemployed cause the minimum wage is e8.65.there should also be a corresponding cut in benefits to make sure its not better to sign on instead of working.i would expect a rise in the minimum wage though when the economy recovers.

what is to be lost now by simply withdrawing the guarantee and fucking the Anglo bond holders?

presumably future access to bond markets.if we burn them now they're not gonna be very receptive to us in future.(for the sake of this question i ignored the whole issue of whether or not bond holders should have to take part of the pain,thats a whole different kettle of fish)

 

[Cormcolash]

Good point. We should definitely cut the minimum wage and welfare because a bunch of rich wankers all decided to fuck the country over. It's definitely the fault of the people doing shitty jobs or being on the dole alright.
Or alternatively, how about we take everyone earning over say 80k a year, and say to them "Right, we're gonna take all your money that would be over 80k. That's what you get for voting Fianna Fail in the last election, you fucks".
I wonder which of those scenarios is more likely.

Yep, thanks lads, a recession you say? Oooooh, we'll certainly have to use that as an excuse to fuck over all the less well off people even more than they're already getting fucked, happy days.

 

[Cormcolash]

Here's another idea, how about we take Brian Cowen, the high up bankers, the property developers, and all the fucks that caused this debacle, drive them off to a big field, and machine gun the shit out of them? Then we wouldn't have to pay any of their salaries any more, that'd probably amount to around 60 billion euros worth of savings straight off, and it'd take a lot less than 4 years to take care of.

 

[taubstumm]

a cut in the minimum wage to say e8 wouldn't be the worst thing in the world if it got more people working,i'd far rather be employed at e8 an hour than unemployed cause the minimum wage is e8.65.there should also be a corresponding cut in benefits to make sure its not better to sign on instead of working.i would expect a rise in the minimum wage though when the economy recovers.

that sounds great from the perspective of an economics lecture, but the reality is that the minimum wage and social welfare are social institutions, not economic ones.

why should the poorest and most vulnerable have to watch their wages and allowances get cut when the reason for the cut is to help fix problems that they did nothing to create?

 

[Milker]

presumably future access to bond markets.if we burn them now they're not gonna be very receptive to us in future.(for the sake of this question i ignored the whole issue of whether or not bond holders should have to take part of the pain,thats a whole different kettle of fish)

I don't think it works that way Kaczy. If I got his 'jist' right Constantine 'happy-face' Gurdgiev (economist) said today that the bond holders are investors, not regular banks, and that they deal w countries solely on their future ability to repay..they don't say 'oooh we really hate the way Ireland didn't pay us back all that cash, lets never lend to them again!'. It's not personal. If we 'renegotiate' and 'restructure' our debt to a degree that reasonably allows us to catch up then investment bankers will be on the next plane to Terminal 2 to lend to us, albeit at a higher rate than market value but a rate we can live w.

 

[Cormcolash]

How about this one: According to this article http://www.finfacts.com/irelandbusinessnews/publish/printer_1000article_1010706.shtml
Ireland had somewhere around 30,000 millionaires in the country. If we take all their money, instead of taking money off dole scroungers and toilet cleaners, that'd make, hmm, let's see, oh yes, 30 billion euros. Then instead of cutting 15 million euro off the budget over the next 4 years, we could increase it by 15 million, sweet.

Edit: That article is pretty funny actually. Nice one bankers, sound.

 

[тхеодоре кацзынски]

I don't disagree that the well off should have to pay higher taxes,it should definitely be introduced along with the cuts in minimum wage/benefits i mentioned above.realistically though,the dole/benefit system is too generous in this country.

 

[Shorty]

Regardless of your opinion of the WSM, this is a good article-

http://www.wsm.ie/c/imf-arrival-dublin-yesterdays-enemies


"Even the Irish Times has now editorialized against the IMF intervention but like most of the emerging mainstream concerns the Times is not concerned about the cuts in jobs, wages and welfare that the IMF will be used to impose. No their concern is for the loss of 'sovereignty' as IMF intervention results in a rise in populist cross class nationalism, a tide which ironically the ruling party, which is bringing in the IMF to make the cuts it would like to, will be best placed to ride."

Gene Kerrigan wrote something similar, "Cowen's cheerleaders aren't mourning lost sovereignty but their own loss of influence".


http://www.independent.ie/opinion/c...and-ready-to-serve-new-overlords-2429185.html

 

[Cormcolash]

You're right. Personally, I'd fucking love to get a life-long job cleaning toilets or working in fucking McDonalds for 8 euro an hour if it earned me more than I'd get on the dole. After all, it's what I've always wanted, what I've always aspired to. Oh I just hate seeing a dirty toilet bowl! Yeah, I'd fucking love to spend 30 years doing a job like that. Think of the pension benefits! Imagine how sorted you'd be when you had to retire! If only every country had classy job opportunities like this for the less educated people, then they might all enjoy the same Utopia we do.
Hang on a minute, you mean some people don't want to do a shit job their whole lives and end up with fuck all at the end of it? How dare they! Dole scroungers! CUT THEIR BENEFITS!!!

 

[Milker]

Here's another idea, how about we take Brian Cowen, the high up bankers, the property developers, and all the fucks that caused this debacle, drive them off to a big field, and machine gun the shit out of them? Then we wouldn't have to pay any of their salaries any more, that'd probably amount to around 60 billion euros worth of savings straight off, and it'd take a lot less than 4 years to take care of.

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we'll round 'em up, put 'em in a field...

 

[taubstumm]

I don't disagree that the well off should have to pay higher taxes,it should definitely be introduced along with the cuts in minimum wage/benefits i mentioned above.realistically though,the dole/benefit system is too generous in this country.

the minimum wage stops many jobs from being a dickensian nightmare (by turning them into merely a miserable drudgery).

a cut in the minimum wage will increase the pain, vulnerability, insecurity and suffering on the people who are already the most miserable. why should they suffer that, more than greater earners?