So, erm, that article in the Times about the bank bailout everyone is reading (1 Viewer)

[ann post]

Yeah I get you but say you're a software multinational and you've got an employee that takes home a grand a week. If the tax rate goes up you're not going to get them down to €8.65 an hour, even if you reduce their salary it's still going to be comfortably above what the minimum wage is. The only way that a reduction in the minimum wage is likely to have a serious impact on salaries as a proportion of expendature for multinationals that might be here is if we start doing sweatshop manfacturing and tried to take on Aisa.

Take into consideration that if our corp tax rises to a point where the uk is a nicer option for these jobs it doesn't take much imagination to move the building to newry or belfast. then the impact on salaries is huge. also see above post above to show how on average a savvy multination can have two employee's on average less then 8.65 per hour at present.

 

[billygannon]

Thing is though .. they are not giving us several billion, they are lending us several billion. Or have I missed something?

By the time we start to pay it back, several elections in these countries will have passed. As far as voters in Germany et al are concerned, they're giving us several billion.

 

[snakybus]

The "men of 1916" thing is really just a metaphor isn't it? Like it's supposed to represent the plenty of honest people in Ireland who fought for Ireland in a similar way: like all the people who worked their arses off in the last 20 years, many of them abroad, living in slum-like conditions in Germany, the UK etc, who suffered many indignities, but who did bring the knowledge, money and experience back to Ireland because it's their home, who didn't necessarily feed in the trough during the good times and didn't take a free ride, and who may have voted Fianna Fail on the basis that this was the party that represented them as the republican party, i.e., supposedly represents the rugged Irish spirit and the common man. And these people are alive and well. I'm not one of these people but if I were, I'd feel like I'd just been rogered big time.

(This is mainly in reference to something Egg said but anyway.Good thread.)

 

[ratmonkey]

Could we not just ask Paddy the Plasterer for a dig-out instead?

 

[тхеодоре кацзынски]

stay staunch lads

 

[hugh]

stay staunch lads

If this is the one thing they have the balls to dig their heels in about, then we are well and truly fucked. From that article - UK corporate tax rate is 28% compared to Ireland's 12.5%. Therefore I don't think we need to worry about multinationals moving operations across the border if we up ours to 15% or something. It was mentioned before that if we raise the tax rate how will the multinationals balance their books? Will they do so by cutting wages? This misses the point ..... it is a tax on profits. It doesn't affect their underlying operating costs - which are probably dropping these days anyway.

 

[ann post]

This misses the point ..... it is a tax on profits. It doesn't affect their underlying operating costs - which are probably dropping these days anyway.

look, i always miss the point (twas i said that). however. lets look at sample here and see how it works out.

UK wage: 13,414 Pa. (in euro at todays rate)
Ireland wage: 17,991 Pa.

so if a company has 5 employees and makes 100,000 euro in a year, it would go a bit like this:

5 irish employes cost 89,959 pa, that leaves about 10,000 euro less 12.5% - so you are left with 8,750 in profit.

5 uk employees cost 67,070 pa, that leaves about 32,000 euro less 28% - so you are left with 23,040 in profit.

have i done that totally wrong?? i just picked numbers out of the air.

 

[D0njo]

groan.. well... the IMF are going to give us lots of money.. and steal all our potatoes and rain...

"Standard IMF methods include the closing down of hospitals, schools and public services on the one hand and the charging of large fees for whatever education and healthcare can still be afforded by some of the population on the other. In other words the policies pushed by the Irish government since the start of the crisis will not be relieved by IMF intervention they will become worse, possibly much worse. But IMF intervention will enable our politicians to wring their hands and claim to be helpless, saying that all this is the price for a bailout. The government has felt unable to slash pensions and social welfare for fear of a backlash, now they will have the IMF to do this for them. Knowing Fianna Fail we may even see them coming back to power in six years on a platform of getting the IMF out, their dirty work done for them"


http://www.wsm.ie/c/imf-intervention-ireland-bonds

 

[Mormon Nailer]

This misses the point ..... it is a tax on profits. It doesn't affect their underlying operating costs - which are probably dropping these days anyway.

Afraid not, as far as they are concerned it's just another cost of doing business, same as printer paper and human souls. Lots of the MNCs based here route large swathes of their income through here in various transfer pricing larks, if they can get the same thing or similar elsewhere, and not have to deal with high Irish payroll costs and shitty infrastructure into the bargain it's not really a big deal for them to up sticks.

 

[D0njo]

the game is afoot

Here's us

 

[тхеодоре кацзынски]

groan.. well... the IMF are going to give us lots of money.. and steal all our potatoes and rain...

"Standard IMF methods include the closing down of hospitals, schools and public services on the one hand and the charging of large fees for whatever education and healthcare can still be afforded by some of the population on the other. In other words the policies pushed by the Irish government since the start of the crisis will not be relieved by IMF intervention they will become worse, possibly much worse. But IMF intervention will enable our politicians to wring their hands and claim to be helpless, saying that all this is the price for a bailout. The government has felt unable to slash pensions and social welfare for fear of a backlash, now they will have the IMF to do this for them. Knowing Fianna Fail we may even see them coming back to power in six years on a platform of getting the IMF out, their dirty work done for them"


http://www.wsm.ie/c/imf-intervention-ireland-bonds

come on now,what else are the wsm gonna say?

 

[nlgbbbblth]

i would be amongst those 'some' that would see it strange.everytime i read that paper theres at least one pro-british article in it and it always seems to have a distinct anti irish slant to it,i have no problem with that in itself,papaers may print what they like but for them to then come out with an article like the above sticks in the craw just a bit.
don't spend a lifetime knocking irish nationalism then print articles that would appear more at home in an phoblacht.

The Irish Independent and its Sunday version are way more anti-Irish and anti-nationalist than the Irish Times.

 

[D0njo]

come on now,what else are the wsm gonna say?

Ah yeah, it's an initial reaction, it's also pointed out that IMF restructuring in Latvia and Argentina have walloped lower earners... well, it's gonna happen anyway


"Dollars and Sense magazine, March / April 2002

In the days just before Christmas, with increasing cutbacks in social programs and an official unemployment rate approaching 20%, Argentinians took to the streets ._ in protest. At the time, Argentina was in the midst of its fourth year of recession. The immediate spark for the unrest was the government's latest economic policies, which restricted the amount of money people could withdraw from their bank accounts. Political demonstrations and the looting of grocery stores quickly spread across the country."

 

[nlgbbbblth]

whatever about bank A and bank B, and responisbility - in this case anglo was initially a small bank (15-20 years ago). they pioneered the heavy loaning and heavy development idea here. They loaned and grew so fast that AIB, BOI and all the other banks were forced to attack the loan market aggressively. while this was going on, planning permission laws were relaxed and manipulated by a certain number of people. the guy from quinn cement was also trying to buy out anglo using a few loopholes (there are legal issues with owning more then around 10% of a bank). he eventually i think was hitting 20% share of it. that kind of craic is a far far cry from converting the garage to rent out or aiming for a better gaff based on your income and what the market offers.

there's also Bank of Scotland / Halifax who entered the Irish market very aggressively in the good times, undercut other lenders' margins / rates and fucked off when things got tough.

 

[nlgbbbblth]

Pat Rabbitte wins

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[тхеодоре кацзынски]

The Irish Independent and its Sunday version are way more anti-Irish and anti-nationalist than the Irish Times.

I find the indo is more stuffed with vapid nonsense than anything else.God know's why i persist in buying the sunday version.kerrigan's always a good read but the rest of it....

 

[Scientician 0.8]

God know's why i persist in buying the sunday version.

For the tits.

 

[тхеодоре кацзынски]

the journalists?

 

[тхеодоре кацзынски]

or the editors indeed,i don't know how half the crap in that paper makes it past any self respecting editor.

 

[nlgbbbblth]

must be Barry Egan's music column. ON THE RECORD X 100000000